What Hell is & Jerusalem Above

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Lecture given by Dr. Kinley around 1973.


DR. KINLEY: I know all of you enjoyed Dr. Glen Kinley, my son after the flesh, and after the spirit. You know there was a time when I would very seldom let him get up and speak; he didn't like that to well, he wanted to help some. And I got some other relatives back there too, you don't see them up here that often. Now from the way he spoke, those of you that don't know, you could see from the way he spoke you would say, "Well it's his son, you can't expect no better from him cause the old man in front of him ain't got no sense. He don't know no better than to follow his old man." And one of my sons got in trouble and his wife left him, got a divorce too. Because this is what she said: She said, "If your daddy would say to you stick your head in a stove you would do it.” Said, "I don't want no husband like that." She meant it too. Now, I wanna say something 'bout that, then I'm gonna go on and tell you why I got up here. In nineteen hundred and forty-four he had a very serious third degree burn over a good part of his body. And all of the doctors in the hospital where he was at, and this same woman that I was telling you about, they say he couldn't live he would have to die, including my daughter, his younger sister. They put a screen around his bed, and all that burnt flesh just pulled off him after a while. I was in Cincinnati, Ohio at the time. And so they told me to come home right away, or come to Springfield right away if I wanted to see him alive. I went to Springfield, and when I got up there and I saw what shape he was in, I said he wouldn't die. Now just what did I say that for? Even my own daughter, my youngest daughter, both of 'em's in the back there. Rachel's here tonight, yeah she's back there. She said, "Well who does papa think he is? Them doctors, some of 'em were in the II World War and they made bombs and all that kind of thing, and fires and all - the doctors they've seen this. They said that had never seen nobody burnt like that and live, now here you come saying that he must die? Now that's terrible for that old man to be talking like that against the authorities of the doctors." Well now, the most of you right here in this audience, the most of you know who I'm talking about, and you have seen him stand here in this pulpit and preach just like that one you just seen sat down. Well now look, let me tell you something. See, I'm not the fellow you might think, no indeed. And I want you to get something out of the service. And that's the reason why I just don't choose to much to have my flesh and blood up here to speak to you. Not because I don't think that they're capable, no indeed, they're as capable as anybody in here, and got just as much spirit as anybody, but the other fellow they don't believe me. And they think that since I'm talking a heavenly language, and they're talking about carnal ordinances, as he said, everybody else is doing it, partaking of it out there. They say, "Well he ain't got no better sense, his daddy before him ain't got no sense." Well we want you to get something out of the service. But now look, we’re gone cut that out. We gone cut that out and just let him go ahead on; let all of 'em go ahead on. And it's some more sitting around here too that don't have no license that's been in this school a long time, who you may not have no confidence in, we gonna let them get up here to. Now that goes for everybody in the school.

Now this is a school. Being a school and teaching in this school... Now we're not going to say everybody is got license, (including them that's already got 'em), we're not talking about them with license. The license ain't no good, I done told you that, and that don't spell you know it. You are our epistle written in our heart read and known of everybody. Everybody knows you.

Well now I wanna tell you why, (that's enough of that), I wanna tell you why I got up here. First of all, we don't want you to think that this is just a routine operation coming to school down here; it's not like that. We want you to know where you are. We want you to know that you're in the judgment. We want you to know that Yahweh is the speaker. Now I wanna tell you what's going on, what's happening. Now if you read the newspaper you know that the Jews, so-called -- now I had to say so-called. Now here is why I had to say so-called, because there is not a nation under the sun, not a one, but what isn't mixed, any race. My grandmother is right out of Ireland, over there where they're having all this trouble, she was a white woman. And I got a little Indian in me, and I don't have to tell you about the Negro. You see what I mean? (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) So now no parts of none of that is going to help you. But now to kind of condense the thing, and I do want you to get something out of what I'm talking about. I want you to see and I want you to understand. Now the reason for saying this: Now the people that are going back over here to Jerusalem, and in the Holy Land, and all of that squabbling that's going on over there between the Arabs and the Israelites, and the UN, Russia, and even the United States said that, uh, the Israelites would give back all the land that they took from them doing the 6 days war in 1967, they should take, uh, they should give it back. And the Hebrews are saying, "No, we want give it back." Now the reason why we want give it back is because it is our land. It was given to us of our father." And now people are looking at it, and the so-called... Now I've explained to you what I meant by so-called. I said every nation under the sun is a mixture, in other words they integrated. But all nations under the sun are of one blood. Somebody said "Wait a minute now, hold that still, let me see now, uh, this one's got this type of blood and the other got the other type of blood," but it's all blood.

Now, let me move on to show you. Now the Israelites, now what they call themselves doing is building Jerusalem again unto the Messiah. And they think that Yahweh has given them that land, (they have a priority on it), and so they're going back over there. They're going out of every country that they can get a passport to leave, and gathering back into Jerusalem under the impression that they are building again, according to the scriptures unto the Messiah. As was the 490 years period when they were released from Babylonian exile, or captivity, they were going to Jerusalem under Nehemiah and Ezra as Dr. Traynham preached here Friday night. Now when Messiah did come along, according to the scripture they rejected Him, then they put Him to death. And they said, "His blood be upon our heads." They did not know, and if they had known that He was really the Messiah that Moses and the prophets said would come, He would have been walking around here, they wouldn't, nobody wouldn't have put Him to death. So now, the Jew he's looking... Now there's three types of Jews too, I think I should tell you about that, three kinds. No real Jew, no real Jew disbelieves in Messiah. No real one don't disbelieve in Him, cause you can get that all messed up too. All of the Jews, the real genuine Hebrew, the seed of Abraham, every last one of 'em believe that Yahshua was the real Messiah. But it was this Jew after the flesh that didn't believe. Now we have the Orthodox, the Unorthodox, and the Conservative, three different types of 'em. The one that want come from under the Law, and insist on keeping the Law of Moses and looking for the Messiah. And when they did go back to Jerusalem and rebuilt over there in the Holy Land, they were dispersed again when Messiah was here. Titus came up from Rome in AD70 and dispersed them, scattered out among all nations. So now they're gathering back there with the idea that they are building Jerusalem unto the Messiah, His coming.

Now Christendom is teaching that He's going to come. And I would... I didn't wanna bring the books down here, but now this is what they think, and they've taken it from the prophecy of Zechariah. That His feet, Yahshua's feet, when He descends from heaven, that His feet will touch the top of the mount of Olives, and one part of it will divide to the South and another to the North, and there will be a big shout. And He will set up his kingdom and we will rule and reign with Him for a thousand years. NOW THAT’S WHAT IS CALLED THE PRE-MILLENNIAL IDEA.

NOW THEN THERE IS A POST MILLENNIAL IDEA: That He's gonna come, and He's gonna consummate the earth or burn it up, create a new heaven and a new earth, and then that's where we'll live and reign with Him for a thousand years. Now both ideas are wrong. BOTH IDEAS ARE WRONG. Now how did it happen that both is wrong? Now when you go back into the dispensations and ages - suppose you come back here. Now this flood is the end of that age. And then we come over into the other age, and He come... Now then this, after the flood, that's the postdiluvian. Now then, when the post diluvian was… See in short, see the ante diluvian, the post diluvian, and then comes this present age. Now you got here, so you can see what I'm talking about, you've got, now back here you got... Dr. Gross put it up here so that you could tell something about it, but now let's count this as one, he's got two, three, four, five, six, seven. But now he's back in here, that's a Creative Age. That's what, that's what this is, is a creative. And that's the reason why you see we got this here; now then that's why. And so now then here comes the Age of Conscience. Now here's what I'm trying to get over to you. Now if it was a pre, then He's got to come as of now and set up the kingdom as they're talking about, and as Jehovah's Witnesses say He will do. And His feet is suppose to touch the top, (I'm repeating for the sake of showing you). His feet, when He descends from heaven, His feet is suppose to touch the top of the Mt. of Olives and then it will divide asunder… Now you'll find that in Zechariah. Will you mind reading it Dr. Harris so you can see what we're talking about. But now while he's finding that let me go on. Now this is what they did not do. Just like you, let's call it this way, maybe... I'm trying to fix it so that you that are in the back can see. Now here is the most holy place, and here's the holy place, and here's the outer court, now that's one two three. Now if you say a pre-millennial, now then this is what you are saying. That after Jesus has ascended and He's gone into heaven - and now when He descends He's coming back and setting up His kingdom on the earth and He's gonna have a spot to land in and that's on the Mt. of Olives, and according to Zechariah. And He's gonna set up His kingdom. Now this, every time you make an appeal to Yahweh about the smog and about the waters that's around Los Angeles being contaminated or polluted, you say you have to see Reagan. And then when you get up to Sacramento to see Reagan about the air being polluted, and about the waters being polluted, and about the insecticides and the poisons in food and cyclamates then Reagan says "No, you're wrong about it, uh see Nixon." And then when you see Nixon, Nixon says, "Well I can't do nothing about it myself, it takes congress." In other words just buck passing. Now here's what I'm talking about so you can, so you can understand. Now what Yahshua the Messiah will have to do, He'll have to come down here and clean up this smog business. And so far as you living and reigning with Him a thousand years, under the circumstances and conditions that we have here, Methuselah was the oldest man, 969 years and he never made the grade. And with all this corruption and polluting that you've got now all over the world, and they've even took it up to the UN. And they said "Now that's international pollution and corruption." Now He had to come down here and do all of that, get that all cleaned up and straightened out, and then we gone reign with Him a thousand years right here on this present earth. And when you say anything to 'em about it, say "Oh Jehovah God's gonna do it!" Now it isn't that He couldn't but that's just not His plan, that's just not His purpose. See now I was talking about post, that's a pre, and this is a what?

Students: (Inaudible)

DR. KINLEY: and what's this?

Students: (Inaudible)

DR. KINLEY: That's right. Now here's what I'm after, I after showing you this: Now before you read that in Zechariah, I want you to read Matthew 24:15

READER: When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation…

DR. KINLEY: um hum

READER: spoken of by Daniel the prophet…

DR. KINLEY: um hum

READER: stand in the holy place. . .

DR. KINLEY: Stand in the holy place. Stand in, right here, now that's the intermediate. Now let's take it over on this side, right here... Now this is, this is the most holy place, this is the holy place, and this is the outer court. Now this is where He said for you to stand, in the holy place, that's the intermediate. And this is where the Holy Spirit was poured out on them. This is where the kingdom that you're talking about is gonna come in. But that carnal mind won't let them see that. Now everything they’re looking at is in the natural. All right read Zechariah.

READER: Then shall Yahweh go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle. And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley, and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north and half of it toward the south, and ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto A-zal. Yea, ye shall flee like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. . .

DR. KINLEY: Now I, now he's read that. Now it said, now this is where they are referring to, that when He comes His feet shall stand on the Mt. of Olives. Now I want you to look in the first chapter of Acts. In other words, they mess up one thing with the other! What they talking about is gonna happen, is already happened! And what they talking about building Jerusalem again unto the Messiah, they’re done with that! Find where He ascended there, the first chapter of Acts of Apostles. I'm not, I'm not in no hurry with it, and yet I am.

READER: Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a Sabbath day's journey. .

DR. KINLEY: Now it says there that He was taken up from the mountain, don't it?

STUDENT: 9th verse

DR. KINLEY: In the first chapter and the first few verses there. . .

STUDENT: the 9th verse.

DR. KINLEY: All right. Now here's what I'm trying to show you. Now He ascended from the Mt. of Olives. His feet stood on, (He had to fulfill that prophecy). Now He's going away and they got Him coming back! Now then, this building Jerusalem again unto the Messiah, that's all finished up. And Messiah has come, and His feet did stand on the Mt. of Olives. That's where He descended from, and told them to go back to Jerusalem and tarry ye there until you receive the promise from on high, the promise of the father. Now they're looking form Him to come back, and the Mt. of Olives is -------. And He's gonna clean up all this corruption and pollution, and He's gonna sit up His kingdom on earth, and He's gonna rule and reign a thousand years, and we're gonna rule and reign with Him a thousand years. Not realizing, get up and show 'em now, that He poured out His spirit on them. Now I want you to go over into Galatians, I want to show you how bad a mistake they're making of this. And these are not the folks that we're talking about. The 4th chapter of Galatians, just like when He's... I'm trying to put it or get it directly as we can get it, about the two covenants there.

READER: for these are, which things are an allegory. For these are the two covenants. . .

DR. KINLEY: now, which things are... See they don't understand the allegory. All right, what is an allegory anyhow?

STUDENT: figure, shadow of things -----

DR. KINLEY: What is an allegory somebody?

STUDENT: ----- -----

DR. KINLEY: Yes, that's right. All right read.

READER: which things is an allegory

DR. KINLEY: Which things are an allegory... Now this is the Apostle Paul talking about the two covenants, one from -------, and the other from above.

READER: Doc, I'll pick up the thought.

DR. KINLEY: All right, see he's got it now.

READER: for it is written that Abraham had two sons. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: the one by a bond maid. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: and the other by a free woman

DR. KINLEY: And another by Sarah his wife, a free woman

READER: but he who was of the bondwoman

DR. KINLEY: but he who was of the bond ... [GLITCH IN TAPE]... the free woman

READER: was by promise

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: which things are an allegory. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: for these are the two covenants. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: the one from Mt. Sinai. . .

DR. KINLEY: the one from Mt. Sinai, which is in Arabia. All right read.

READER: which gendereth to bondage. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: which is Agar. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats) All right read on.

READER: for this Agar is Mt. Sinai in Arabia

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: and answereth to Jerusalem which now is. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: and is in bondage with her children.

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats). But read.

READER: But Jerusalem which is above is free. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: which is the mother of us all. . .

DR. KINLEY: Which is the mother of Jews and Gentiles above in the spirit! That's the mother of us all. Now let's put it together and see if we can make any sense out of it. Abraham had two sons, one by Hagar and one by Sarah, Ishmael and Isaac. And the Ishmaelites they never did leave from up here. And Ishmael had twelve sons just like Jacob had twelve sons, and Yahweh never brought them down into Egypt, they stayed up here. Now that makes me say this: ALL OF THE ANGELS THAT WAS IN HEAVEN, ALL OF 'EM DIDN'T SIN AND WAS CAST OUT. Now this is a type and a shadow! This is in the natural. And since it is in the natural, and we set it up as a natural thing right up and down here, so that you could see and understand. Now the Ishmaelites, or the posterity, or those that were born after those tribes, they never left! Yahweh never brought them down here. They have a right to be in Jerusalem and in the holy land. They stood by faith; they were not cast out. JUST LIKE THE ANGELS IN HEAVEN, THEY WASN'T ALL, THEY DIDN'T ALL SIN, AND SO ALL OF 'EM WASN'T CAST OUT! I'm trying to make it real plain. Now instead of you fooling with this Jerusalem beneath and looking at that, and thinking we Jews are going to go over there and build it again to Messiah, and His feet's gonna come down and touch the Mt. of Olives, which thing has already happened. And now when we get the holy spirit, it's Jerusalem Above that's the mother of both Jews and Gentiles, that's the Jerusalem that counts, not that one over there on earth. Did I get the thought over clear?

STUDENTS: Yes, sir.

DR. KINLEY: Now they got it all balled up. They saying Zechariah said... Just like Amos said to the people, "Prepare to meet," I'm talking as though I'm talking in the King James Version, "Prepare to meet the Lord thy God." And they're still talking about, "Prepare to meet the Lord they God." And when He come along they met Him, and they didn't know a thing about Him. And He told 'em way back there to prepare and meet Him. Now when He come along He sent His disciples out and this is what He told 'em. He said, now you go out there and tell 'em that the Kingdom of God is at hand. Would you call 2000 years at hand?


DR. KINLEY: Do you see what I mean? Now since everything is so messed up, so contaminated, so polluted, and as you look at the natural, see it's going back into a chaosis. I'm talking about the smog, and I'm talking about the water pollution, and I'm talking about the food pollution. Ain't no way in the world for you to have eternal life in that! The doctor die, the undertaker die, the grocery store man die, the cattle's diseased. And I told you before they had enough poison gas up here in Utah to kill everybody on earth. And they’re just afraid of it as they can be, they don't know what to do with it. And you talking about Him coming back here... Now, now before we go any further with it let me show you this. Paul said, "We don't know Him no more after the flesh, henceforth now know we Him no more after the flesh." You have a mortal body with a eternal spirit, that's providing you have the Holy Spirit in you, that's making you see and understand. As we read the scripture lesson, suppose you read it again to help somebody see what kind of a cleaning up job is got to be done. And we have in these school and these classes.. Now listen at me. Listen at me close! Because what's gonna happen, you can't, you can't say, you can't say you'll pass June, and you can't say you'll pass October. Why then, why are you saying that Dr. Kinley? Because June is this, is when He spoke from Mt. Sinai. To just cut it up real short, we told you this: October the 10th, (I left out a whole lot of it) but I'm just trying to point it out something to you. October the 10th is when He went into the Most Holy Place. Now the Seventh Day Adventist said this: Said that they were expecting Him to come down in eighteen hundred and forty-four. He failed to come. Now we got it in, in that daily paper there, now He failed to come in 1844. They sold their possessions and did everything. And went out, you know, and got on the tops of mountains, they expected Him to come in 1844 and He never did show up. And you know what they said, and they’re still saying it too. They said instead of Him coming to earth, like they said in 1844 He's just ascending into the Most Holy Pace. Now the last error was worse than the first. Now the Apostle puts it this way: "That He has ascended on into heaven and sit down at the right hand," (now listen) making intercessions for us. He entered on within the veil." Now all kinds of mistakes and errors are being made. All kinds of erroneous doctrines are being preached and taught. They're trying to correct every kind of mistake. You see what I'm talking about?

Now Jehovah's Witness said, "No, He'll be in 1914," and He didn't show up. So now they're saying He'll be in, in 1975. And the Church of God is saying, "Yeah, said we agree with you, it'll be in 1975." Read.

READER: And seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved. . .

DR. KINLEY: And seeing that all these things shall be dissolved… Now look folks, look up here at me. Now we struggle and do everything that we can do to get you to see. Now this creation come in, and this cloud signifies spirit and in the realm of eternity, and that is a fire. See they have done everything that they could do to try to draw fire around this cloud where Moses saw the vision. Now the fact that it come in, in the fire and in the cloud - are you . . .[Side 1 of Tape Ends] . . . If you look at the last verse in the 24th chapter of Exodus, it says "The cloud, (listen), was a consuming fire in the eyes of the children of Israel." Now Peter is looking right back as to how it come into being, and telling you it's got to go back out that same way. When it came in it was inorganic! The gases and oil and everything was all amalgamated. And it's going into now... And now if it was inorganic it has to be organized and put together right. Now if it come in that way in the fire, and look He was an incorporeal at that time. He's an incorporeal at this time and not gonna take on no flesh. You'll never see Him no more not in no flesh. And you're not gonna stay in it, so you can cut out the junk around here talking about black panthers and white supremacy. Cut that junk out cause that's just as bad as the pollution of the waters and the corruption in the air. With all this satanic confusion that you have got, now you right on, right up in it! And you can't say that on the 10th day of October that the high priest went in... Now remind you now, be aware that even after he went in on the 10th day of October, he had to come back out that same day. Now there isn't anybody in the world, including the kids, but what don't know that this gas, and this pollution and this corruption, to say nothing about shooting one another down, they know that you can't survive. And one scientist said this: Said, "We have passed, we've passed the point of no return." Said "We started to late, I'm afraid there ain't nothing we can do about it." Now here it here it is, it says here - read.

READER: Seeing that all these things. . .

DR. KINLEY: Seeing that all these things shall be disintegrated, dissolved... Now this is what Jehovah's Witness say, (They read back over there in Psalms where Solomon says, one generation goes and another cometh, but the earth abideth forever), “This, this earth is gonna abide forever.” Now when you get over here to this where Peter saying it's gonna be consummated... And it's something else I wanna say to you too there. In the 24th chapter of Matthew, no, it's in the 5th chapter. He said, "Blessed are the meek for they shall see God," since you all were talking about it. "Blessed are the meek for they shall see God." Is that what you say He said?

STUDENT: That's right

DR. KINLEY: “They shall inherit the earth. Blessed are the pure in heart..." In other words He said they'd see God. You ain't gone never see Him like this. That wasn't what He's talking 'bout. But when you get done with your carnal mind, after Him saying that, and then now here He says, and here you got over here, "No man's seen God at any time." And then here He's comes along saying that, "Blessed are the," uh what?

STUDENTS: Pure in heart

DR. KINLEY: Pure in heart for they shall see God. And nobody ain't never seen nothing of Him. Why I haven't never seen no Jesus, I ain't never seen no resurrection. What's he talking 'bout? When you get down in this Bible you gonna get messed up so bad just quoting. You don't recognize, you don't realize that the Kingdom that they're talking about that He's coming and setting up, is right now, and you have been translated into the kingdom. And this earth as you see it now, it will be disintegrated, it will be dissolved. Now this is what Solomon meant. Solomon meant as long as the earth remained, one generation would go and another would come, but the earth wouldn't go with the generation, the earth will abide as long as one 'em went and came. Now that's what he meant by what he said!

Now Jehovah's Witnesses are saying that this earth as it is, it's gonna be eternal, and it's not going to be disintegrated, it's not gonna be dissolved. Don't know and don't understand the purpose. And Yahweh said now, that He would create a new heaven and a new earth. They said "Naw, this one." Now look folks, they haven't found out yet how this one come in, scientist and all. So since they haven't found out how this one come in, then they don't know nothing about how it's going out. You can't depend upon men to solve no problems. Read on.

READER: what manner of persons. . .

DR. KINLEY: Now seeing all these things shall be dissolved, disintegrated, mortal bodies, physical heaven and earth, the sun, the moon and stars and everything be dissolved... Read on Dr. Harris.

READER: What manner of persons ought you to be. . .

DR. KINLEY: What kind, just, just, now of course now if you don't see it... Read what you just read there "Seeing then..."

READER: Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved…

DR. KINLEY: See, now some of us don't see, so he don't know what manner of person you ought to be. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons ought we to be? All right read on.

READER: in all holy conversation and godliness. . .

DR. KINLEY: In all holy conversation

READER: and godliness. . .

DR. KINLEY: (Repeats)

READER: looking for. . .

DR. KINLEY: Look, now wait a minute! That's why somebody's gonna get surprised. And I was leading up to that to show that when He is revealed, and as they think He's gone jump down through the sky, this Jerusalem above, He's gone be revealed from there, be revealed from heaven. Now since you don't know nothing 'bout heaven, and you looking up in the sky with your carnal mind, and looking down here on earth, natural earth, that's got you looking around at that. It's got you thinking that Jesus is gone come back here like this and walk around. And Jerusalem above is the mother of all. And we must be born from above, now that means in the spirit. Now you are, you yourself, you are in Jerusalem. IF YOU ARE A GENUINE YAHSHUAN OR A SON OF YAHWEH you are in Jerusalem. Now I do not mean geographical Jerusalem. I do mean that you are already in the heavenly Jerusalem without going anywhere. You have been translated and you are in it. Now when He is revealed from Jerusalem above, then that's when the change will take place in fire. And then He is a consuming fire, and then all of the earth will be renovated instantaneous at the revelation of Him from on high. Now that's what I have preached with all the sincerity, and all the vigor and vim and power in my body. That's the reason why I have cried, I'd hate to see the tears that I have shed in trying to get it over to you and show you who the mother of us all is Jerusalem above, that's the new covenant, that's the new state.

Now heaven up there in the sky where the sun, moon, and stars is, that's physical or nominal heaven. But now you forgot there's three heavens. Paul said, "I knew a man above 14 years ago who was exalted up to the third heaven and seen things impossible for a man to utter." Just, because speaking in tongues, but no song was able to utter it, and to describe, just wasn't able to utter, because it's inconceivable to a carnal mind. Now this being down here, or down in Egypt, then that's one, and this is two, and this is three, and all of it is an allegory of the third heaven. I mean he was caught up to Jerusalem above and he seen things. Now listen folks, when He's revealed as Yahshua the Messiah said it... I have to cut this up short cause I know the time is just about expired but I do, I would like to explain. So I want you, I want you to realize where you stand. I don't want you to just make it a formality of coming down here and not receiving nothing, and not seeing where you stand at this present time, not seeing what's going on and walking around in the dark blind, and staggering around down there, talking about... One's over here saying, "Well look, when I received the Holy Ghost I spake in tongues." Another one over there saying, "Well you wasn't baptized right though." Another one over here he's saying "Well he keeps the Sabbath day." Another one over here saying "Well do you, do you take the communion?" And all that kind of junk! And when you get through with it, it's just all a conglomerated mess. You see what I'm talking about?

Here's Jehovah's Witness saying a hundred and forty-four thousand of the earth class is going to heaven, and all the rest of 'em they’re earth bound. Not realizing there's even gonna to be a change in the earth. And they didn't see this: That these that were born in the wilderness, they were the ones that went out there on Mt. Zion. And John is looking, John say it. In other words Yahweh just multiplied 'em a hundred and ----- there in the wilderness. They were the ones that John was looking at right on the isle of Patmos. They were born, not these that come out of Egypt, but they were born in that, and then you go cross there in water to reach Mt. Zion. Now when they come up out of Egypt here, they were numbered, they give him that shekel for the sanctuary. When Joshua took 'em across here they were numbered. They were numbered every man that was fit to go to war. They were numbered, but there was no count given. And John said, on the Isle of Patmos, said I heard the number the called. Said, I just heard it. Then he said I saw another number, 144000. And Jehovah's Witness around hear talking about 144,000 of the earth class is going go to heaven. That man was in the Holy Spirit, and then he'd have to be in the Spirit to understand this back here. Now they don't know what heaven is. They don't know what hell is or shoel. They don't know nothing about the earth plane. They don't know what's gong on. A carnal mind is a terrible thing! You can't see with no carnal mind, you just have to be born again. And as the ministers have said to day, "You get up here and speak, and everybody is condemning everybody, but nobody knows nothing about what to..." You got your brand of religion, you got your brand, now that's nothing new. The Pharisees, and the Sadducees, the Scribes, and the Zealots were right back there in Messiah's day. Now Messiah told the Jew, who had the scriptures all around his ankle, around his arms, around his neck, He said, when they told him about seven brothers and they had a wife. The oldest one had a wife and he died. And Moses said the next one down shall takes his wife. And he said now all seven of 'em died now who's got the, uh, in the Kingdom now who's wife is she gonna be? And look what He said to 'em. He said "You do greatly error, you making an awful mistake, they're not given in marriage, and that's not all, you don't know the power of God; then another thing you don't know, you don't know the Scriptures. “Don't tell me, I got a book there around my house! I got 'em all out around my -------.” You see what I’m talking about? And the rich young lawyer said, "Look, I studied from my youth up, what lack I yet?" He said "Go and sell, give that back to the poor." And he done been around robbing everybody, cause he was the Sanhedrin Council's rich young lawyer. He couldn't see the commandment said, "Thou shalt not covet." And he, not only covet, he done robbed all his brethren. Now he done kept the commandment from his youth up. "Now what lack I yet?" See a liar. That's the way these people are doing today! And here’s he call himself understanding the scriptures. Now He said, "You don't know the scriptures, and not only that, and neither do you know the power of God…Now they're just not given..." We're not married to the flesh, we're married to Yahshua the Messiah. We are His body. I mean a chaste virtuous virgin, not an adulteress. And then it's not male or female, it's not bond nor free. Now when you commence to talking like that you're talking like a fool. This is Yahweh's wife back here. Now He was married to them there. But now coming over on this side, they're married to another, Yahshua the Messiah.

Oh children I tell you, this heavenly vision that we're talking about, and everything functions right out that way. Dr. Traynham said that the time has expired. But now look, you come on back, you come on back so that you can learn some more about this, because it's time for the curtain to drop down. It's time for this earth to be renovated by fire. And Yahshua the Messiah is not gonna come and set up no Kingdom. The Kingdom that He was talking about is already set up AND YOU’RE ALREADY IN HEAVEN. It's a state, not a place, a state of consciousness out from under condemnation. The Holy Spirit, which is Yahshua the Messiah in you, now that's heaven! The nominal heavens up there, that's another thing. Now then you take the atmospheric heaven, right here, now this is another heaven. This atmospheric heaven, and up there where the planets are… This atmospheric heaven is one; up there where the planets are, is two, and the one I'm, the heaven, the third heaven that's everywhere. And when we get straightened out then we're in there; we're in there with Yahweh. BUT THE DEVIL DON’T SEE THAT. And we are in His Kingdom and He is in us. And when He is revealed from that state in which He's in... I'd like for you sometimes to read the 3rd chapter of Colossians. "Ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God, (that's your King James Version) then when He appear, (to prove that you are there), then when He appear, you'll appear with Him." Somebody said "Naw, that ain't the way it is, He's coming back after a church without spot or wrinkle." Well He's gone fail in that. He's gone fail in that. He ain't coming back after it. Now they didn't even see that the church or the congregation of the assembly is His body. Now He done run off and left His body, and He's coming back to get... I tell you it's a terrible thing; it's a terrible things to get messed up in that Bible. NO, WE ARE THERE IN HEAVEN. Now you're either there or in hell right where you setting at. If you're carnal minded you're in hell.

Now since we told you where heaven was then we oughta tell you where hell is. Now you with your carnal mind, right where you sat in your seat, you're sitting flat there in hell. Jude and Peter both say this: "The angels that sinned they were cast down to hell." And Yahshua the Messiah sent His disciples out, you know it as well as I do to cast them satanic spirits out of men. Then if they were cast down to hell then can't you see where hell is?

You've had enough experience with all these trials and tribulations and dealing with your own problems, your individual self, as they try to say. And if you don't have the Holy Spirit, almost anything comes along upsets you. How in the world you suppose to expect the devil to behave himself? You got him in you, then you talking 'bout somebody else that won't behave, and you don't see yourself, and you always blaming somebody else. Say, "Well it's my wife, my children, and this, that and the other." It all depends on the eyes you look out of. You see what I'm talking about?

AUDIENCE: (Applause)