Birth of Christ vs Birth of Jesus

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Lecture given by Dr. Kinley on December 9, 1958 at 1347 North Cahuega Blvd, Hollywood, CA 90028.

If you noticed, the Bible Dictionary spoke of Jesus Christ. It didn't make any distinction between Jesus and Christ. That is our objective, to show you in reality, such a distinction. In dealing with the nation of Israel, the apostles realized that they had to be very careful about what they said to them, because they had the law of Moses and the books of the prophets. So then to talk to them intelligently about the Christ, or real Messiah, then they didn't have too much to say about Jesus. That is to say, they didn't speak of him as they had in later years as Jesus Christ, as we would say, John Jackson, etc. They distinguished between one Jesus and the other Christ.

Now I want you to notice the writing of the epistle of the apostle to the Jewish people, trying to make them understand that this person whom we spoke of as being Jesus the Christ, is in reality the one who actually was not Jesus, as we understand it to be. I want you to read in the epistle to the Hebrews. (This is frequently overlooked, as Dr. Merton read in the Bible Dictionary; they didn't distinguish between the real true meaning of what the New Testament really was. They had in mind that the New Testament was written with pen and ink.) So conglomeration, when it comes to separating these things and putting them in their right place. Let us look at the first chapter of the Hebrews. This is an epistle written direct to the Jewish people and respect it as such (not written to the Gentiles). "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory and the expressed image of his person,..."

Now, if you will notice, he says there, by his Son, God made the worlds, so that was some time even before Mary was born. If you can see the approach to the Jewish people that had the law and prophets, see the difference between the approach that God made the worlds by his Son or created everything thing that was created by his son "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his ministers a flame of fire. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"

I wanted you to notice the difference in the approach, that he actually laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the works of thy hands. Now if you notice, technically, the approach to those who had received and read the Pentateuch and the prophecy, how that he spoke of his Son.

We will read some verses so we can connect this together, so we can show the actual birth of Christ. We are not talking about Jesus. Proverbs 8:22. First read Revelation 3:14. Revelation means revealed, so you can understand that all that is written in the law and in the prophets is condensed in such a way that you can appreciate the mystery that has been hid for ages and generations, that is not generally talked too much about or studied about in our religious literature. Now we have spoke quite frequently about the beginning of the creation, then the first thought that gets into our minds is the first chapter of Genesis, "In the beginning God created the heaven and earth," which is the physical creation. Now that is not the beginning of the creation of God. Now the real beginning of the creation of God is Christ. That is why we wanted to bring your attention to the first chapter of Hebrews, so that you could see the difference between the one and the other. Now if we read Revelation 3:14 you will get the actual beginning of the creation of God and you will see there that it is not the creation of the heaven and earth "And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"

That is the real beginning of the creation of God. The faithful and true witness is Christ. Revelation 1:5; "And from Jesus Christ who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, "Now we understand that instead of the physical creation being the beginning of the creation, it is Christ, he is the first. Now read St. John 5:37, "God is Spirit..." so said John, quoting the words of Jesus who is called the Christ in St. John 4:24, that God is Spirit. Now if God is Spirit, he is inconceivable, you wouldn't know anything about any shape or any form etc., so just to speak of God being Spirit you wouldn't have a profound knowledge of any shape or any form or any creation or anything. So then before we can begin any kind of a creation...God is Spirit, or substance, incorporeal substance. He must take on some kind of shape and form, and in taking on of shape and form, the form that he took on, that to me is the birth of Christ, so you can see, or the beginning of the creation of God, the faithful and true witness, who knew God, and come direct from God, and was the only one that did know God, because he was a counterpart of God himself.

Now if you will look in St. John 5:38, "And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape." Now the Jewish people, to whom the Messiah came, that was born a few years prior to his advent into the world, they hadn't heard the voice of God, but those that were born back in the wilderness, and heard God speak from Mt. Sinai they heard the voice but didn't see no shape or any form at all, because the word that was spoke back there you could hear the sound with your ears, but you couldn't visualize no shape and no form. So therefore, he said in John 5:37 that these that were living at that time that God had taken on a physical body and come into the world, that they at any time had heard his voice, nor seen his shape. Now I had you to put that down so you could understand that Jesus was in physical shape and in form, but God, before he came in that physical body, there hadn't anyone seen his shape and form at all. Therefore, we speak of God at that time, when he had taken on shape and form, there wasn't any of them that had seen him to describe him, such as a shape and form until later he manifested himself in shape and form into Christ that we are talking about up in Mt. Sinai, in that cloud in incorporeal form; not as a physical man, but by a vision that is in incorporeal form, which we speak about. That is to me the birth of Christ, not the birth of Jesus. That was long before the physical creation ever took place. Let us see if that is true.

As previously said, he had to take on that shape and form, incorporeal shape and form, before he began to create, for this reason. Everything that he created in the universe had to reflect back to his existence so that you could see the thing that shaped and formed, etc., such as the man -- you could see and determine something about the attributes of God, that is in incorporeal form. Man in is physical stature shows the invisible God. So when Moses, Aaron, Nadab and Abihu and 70 elders saw him up in the mount, he was not a physical form at all, and when Moses saw him and looked at himself, or saw him create Adam, then he was able to say he was created in his likeness and in his image. So then Jesus Christ whom we speak of as being the Christ, he was the expressed image of the incorporeal form that man was created in the likeness to. In other words, when Moses saw the incorporeal form there in the mount and looked at a man, he knew that he was created in the likeness and image of the incorporeal form that he saw in Christ, and that incorporeal had to exist or Christ had to exist, because God, which is that unshapen substance which we know nothing about, had had to take on this form before he began to create.

Now he seeks to prove it; Proverbs 8:22; "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning," That was some time, even before the Virgin Mary ... " or ever the earth was. When there were no depths I was brought forth;" Now he was brought forth, or from that substance, took on incorporeal shape and form before ever the earth was. Moses said in the first chapter of Genesis "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." But now here we are talking about before ever the earth was, that he was with the Lord or God possessed him in the beginning of his way before ever the earth was.

"When there were no fountains abounding with water. Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: When he set a compass upon the face of the depth: When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him:” meaning from that substance, he was brought up, or brought forth, into that incorporeal form. "…and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; (or that day that never ended;) Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." I just wanted to show you the true birth of Christ. That to me is the true Birth of Christ, because God created all things by Christ, that was created.

Now we have some contention, read Exodus 3:14 and compare it with St. John 8:58. When you read, look where you are reading and understand what dispensation and what age you are reading where the references are made, then it will begin to dawn on you. Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I am that I am, and he said thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel. I Am hath sent me unto you, at that time that those words were expressed, was in the wilderness of Sinai, when Moses was there by the burning bush, before he went down into Egypt, to deliver the Children of Israel, and now he wants to know what he must say to them as to who sent him and God told Moses to tell them that I Am sent him. That was before he brought the children of Israel out and went up into the mount in the cloud in Mt. Sinai and saw him in an incorporeal form, so he just told him to tell them that I am, sent him.

If you will look and see from a chronological point of view, that it was before the birth of Mary, to say nothing about the birth of Jesus or BC 1491 or birth of Christ. That is why I say, there is no such thing as Before Christ or BC. In general theological terms, accepted that BC to mean, before the birth of Jesus, but there is no such thing as before the birth of Christ. Why? Because he created all things by Christ himself. Also the birth of Christ did not take place in the realm of time, it took place in Eternity so therefore there could be no birthdate set up for Christ. There is no birthdate for him. Birthday, came in the realm of time and he was in Eternity, when he was brought forth, so December 25, or no other month or day can be his actual birthday. He had a birth day, that is to say, he was born, or set up from everlasting to everlasting, and the day has never ended, because it has never begun, or it took place in Eternity. So when we read here about the Virgin Mary, it was sometime after he came along.

Now St. John 8:58, Jesus said unto them, "Verily, Verily I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am." The reason I had you to read over in Exodus and compare it with St. John 8:58, was to show you that the common way of expressing his birth into the world was to call him Jesus, the Christ, but at the time the words he is using was spoken and recorded by Moses in the 3rd Chapter of Exodus and the 14th verse. That was before the event in the flesh or before he had taken on a physical body, chronologically. Now look at Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Now I am saying that incorporeal form, when it came into the world, manifesting itself in a physical body, that is to say, God was then manifesting in a physical body not an incorporeal, but as a physical and they called him, Wonderful, Counselor, The Prince of Peace and The Mighty God.

The Apostle Paul said in Timothy 3:16 "Without controversy, great is the mystery of God, God was manifested in the flesh, seen of angels, believed on in the world, and received up into glory." It is a great mystery to the difference between, let's describe spirit as universal substance, as being God without shape and without form, and then that incorporeal substance taking on incorporeal form and call that Christ. Then it takes on a physical form, that was born through the loins of the Virgin Mary, we speak of it as Jesus. Now that is the one and the same God manifesting in incorporeal form and in physical form, and it is a great mystery. The general concept, or theological concept, is that it is three different persons which is definitely not 3 different persons as the Trinitarian idea seeks to call it. If it was 3 different persons, then it would be 3 people, it's not that, but it's one single, monotheistic concept of the one God manifesting in incorporeal form and in visible form.

Let's see if we can verify and confirm that. The 1st Chapter St. John, 1st Verse "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." As referred to in Proverbs 8:22 "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way..." Now John is saying, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God." 14th verse "And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

When Moses constructed the tabernacle and consecrated it in the wilderness of Sinai, the cloud stood above the tabernacle and in the Most Holy Place. The high priest was brought in and out once every year, and that was on the day of atonement and he would smite the ark of the covenant, which is symbolical to the throne of God where the 2 cherubim of glory overshadowed the mercy seat, as is seen on the chart in the Most Holy Place. He put on those garments of beauty and glory and went into the Most Holy Place once every year, all other days of the year he went only into the Holy Place. Once a year he entered through the vail, symbolizing the flesh, and into the Most Holy Place, which is symbolical to eternity or into heaven, and there he threw blood toward the mercy seat 7 times, first for his own sins, then for the errors of the people, that encamped about -- 3 tribes on each side of the tabernacle -- and 4 sides, making a total of 12 tribes. When God had accepted the atonement, there would be a light reflect between the wings of the Cherubims, didn't see any form, just saw the reflection of light, called in theological writing the Shechinah, That light was identified with God, that said, God is light. And knew by that, that he performed and carried out the services according to the precepts that God gave to Moses for the routine operations as being a high priest, or that the tabernacle is symbolical to your body, it is also symbolical to the body that God manifested in, we speak of as Jesus and God dwelt in that tabernacle so also did he dwell in Jesus and he expressed it this way. I am the Father and the Father is in me. And he talked so much about his Father, because he was not seeking to make a reputation for himself, until Philip asked him to show us the Father, that we might be satisfied, and Christ said, when you see me, or as he put it, Have I been so long a time with you and you say show us the Father, when you see me, you see the Father, or that body was the tabernacle through which the spirit operates, as it did in the wilderness of Sinai in the tabernacle, and it does in you.

I have tried to explain that your body that has been made up like the incorporeal form or made in the likeness and image of God and you are pneuma, psyche and soma, or soul, body and spirit, so to go back to substance from whence this spirit substance which is God, and take on this form and later transform on into a physical body, it is very clearly indicated when you go into Dr. Harris's phase of it, from the sperm from which a child is born and conceived, how it is formed, head first and then on down. Then you can understand something about what I have reference to, to the structure of the Godhead, because man is made in the likeness and image of God.

Now read Revelation 1:8-9. Revelation means reveal, but bear in mind, when you read that the Messiah had been in the world, or he was the one that created everything as explained, he took on a physical form and then he had taken it off and went out of the flesh and now he is back in that incorporeal form where he was with the Father before the world begun, or back in that eternal state, where you don't visualize him as a physical man. That is to say, he has entered on through the veil or flesh. That is what we mean, by enter on through the veil. Now he is talking in Revelations, signifying by the angel, to his servant John on the Isle of Patmos I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is and which was," meaning which is now and which was when he was manifesting in the flesh, "which is to come" - three different statements - "the Almighty".

We have tried to show you the birth of Christ. Now we want to talk about the birth of Jesus. The birth of Christ means anointed. The word Jesus means Saviour. When you read make sure that we take what is in the book. Who is being born here? Note and see whether or not in the 1st chapter of Matthew, if it is the birth of Christ or not, see if Matthew says it is the birth of Christ or not. Matthew 1:18. "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Now he is talking about the thing, and they have already learned to speak of him as Jesus Christ. Matthew 1:21. "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: “ not Christ but JESUS.

Notice carefully, this book of Matthew was written about 18 years after the ascension of Jesus, the Christ we are talking about. Somehow they have begun to call him Jesus Christ, so when he comes down to say the birth of Jesus Christ, it's just a common way of expressing it. But when he gets down to the 21st verse, in the 1st chapter of Matthew, where he is actually telling the story as to whether or not that Mary gave birth to Christ or not, he did not say if you notice the 21st verse, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins." It did not say that Mary gave birth to Christ, but in reading and understanding, they have begun to call Him Jesus Christ etc., then we see that they use it without the distinction in particular in reference to Christ that created the world and Jesus the physical body, that Christ or God was manifested in.

Now the birthday of Jesus: The Bible Dictionary says about December 5th or 25th, which is not the birth of Jesus. Mary was overshadowed with the Holy Ghost, nobody comments on this, but reads right on without taking thought of what this Holy Ghost is. Holy Ghost is an apparition. After she was overshadowed with the Holy Ghost, and that apparition which she was overshadowed with was the Holy Ghost, which Jesus talked about, that you would receive after his departure out of the flesh. He told his disciples to tarry in Jerusalem until you receive power from on high, for he would send the promise of the Father upon them and they would receive power after the Holy Ghost would come, the same that overshadowed the Virgin Mary, as you read in the 1st chapter of Matthew. There are some that are atheists, saying that it is impossible to bring about a birth without the masculine and feminine secretion with much denial of the birth of Jesus, according to gynecology and the generations of the human species. They don't see how a child could be born without a physical father, and some of the atheists speculate that the angel went in unto Mary and she received the seed of which Jesus was born by some impregnation by the angel. At no time have I ever heard anyone say anything about the child being formed by the apparition or by the Holy Ghost which overshadowed Mary, and she was impregnated by that. Which is the same Holy Ghost that was to overshadow you to be born again, which would be the same seed that the Virgin Mary conceived with and gave birth to Jesus. Now you can see that, that incorporeal form that overshadowed her, that the child was formed in her without the physical father as we know a birth is accomplished from that, or bring about the physical body of Jesus or that tabernacle which God was manifested in.

This is to explain the difference between the birth of Jesus and the birth of Christ. As for the day and place of Jesus’ birth, as the first man Adam was a type of Christ, the second Adam and Christ is fulfilling that of the first Adam, then as Adam was formed on the 6th day of creation, then Christ must be born on the 6th day, not the 25th or 24th, but the 6th. As for his place of birth which seems to be by inconvenience to find an inn, and was compelled to be born in a stable with the cattle and animals, so did he fulfill the condition existing with that of the first Adam who was created from the dust of the earth after God had created the animals of the field. A stable was generally a place of shelter, in the side of a hill or bank.