You are an Epistle

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Lecture given by Dr. Kinley in 1964 in Los Angeles, California.

ORIGINALLY RECORDED BY DR. CARL F. GROSS ON REEL TO REEL TAPE RECORDER TRANSFERRED TO AUDIO CASSETTE BY GERRY ROTHSTEIN 1 90 AND 1 60 MINUTE AUDIO CASSETTE CATALOG NUMBER: 64 TE

1984 ORIGINALLY TRANSCRIBED BY MARY SPRINGER ORIGINALLY PROOFREAD BY GERRY ROTHSTEIN

1997 FIRST PROOFREADING: MARY COLUCCI SECOND PROOFREADING: MICHAEL ROTHSTEIN THIRD PROOFREADING: SUSAN AMEIGH FOURTH PROOFREADING: GERRY ROTHSTEIN FIFTH PROOFREADING: INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE APPROVED BY THE INTERNATIONAL PUBLIC RELATIONS COMMITTEE: 1997

TRANSCRIBER'S NOTES

1. ... INDICATES THAT DR. KINLEY ENDED A WORD OR A SENTENCE WITHOUT VERBALLY COMPLETING IT. 2. AUDIENCE COMMENTS ARE INCLUDED ONLY IF MORE THAN ONE PERSON RESPONDED OR IF DR. KINLEY WAS SPEAKING DIRECTLY TO A SPECIFIC PERSON. 3. UNLESS EMPHASIZED BY DR. KINLEY PAUSE WORDS HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THE TRANSCRIPT FOR THE SAKE OF EASE IN READABILITY AND COMPREHENSION (AH, SEE, YOU SEE, YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN, YOU FOLLOW, IS THAT RIGHT.) 4. ____ INDICATES AN INAUDIBLE WORD OR SYLLABLE 5. WORDS IN CAPITAL LETTERS ARE COMMENTS OF THE TRANSCRIBER

1ST SPEAKER: Dr. Roger Jackson

TAPE 1, SIDE 1:

MODERATOR: I would like to present for the next speaker this evening the founder and Dean of this school, Dr. Henry C. Kinley. Doctor.

DR. KINLEY: Thank you very much. I'm sure that all of you will agree that Dr. Jackson has preached doctrine. If you don't agree, then it's because you don't know what doctrine is. I'm not saying that apologetically either, it is because it is the truth. While he was speaking then, all day today, and practically all this year, I've been thinking about the erroneous doctrines that have been taught down through this age. Christendoom I'm talking about. We got the thing all twisted up, thinking that what you oughta do is, as you see in your papers all the time, 'Go to the church of your choice next Sunday.' Well, then when you begin to examine the doctrine and the philosophies of the various religious organizations against the Bible, then you can discover some of this satanic philosophies and doctrines that's out here, but you first have to know something about the truth itself. You have to learn. And I'm feeling pretty good when I think back over the 33 years that I have been teaching and investigating. It has stood up under scrutiny. I have been abused, accused, bucked at, beat up bodily and everything else that you can think of. Isolated. Segregated. Ostracized. Talk about discrimination. I've had all of them. But I thank God for one thing in particular, and that is: the gospel which I have preached to you these 33 years, I'm not ashamed of it, and it will stand up under scrutiny and investigation.

And I think quite frequent about the people out here talking about God as though He was some antique or way back yonder in oblivion; some prehistoric character. He's out-moded and gone out of date, some place a far off, out of communication, and will see you at some future time. Now that's the way that most of us have been taught. And we don't want to let God, when He does come around, catch us with something we feel like we ought not to have. Then we have an imagination again that He's gonna come and take us to heaven. And we got an imagination about where heaven is. I said an imagination. Look, I know what I'm talking about; I'm using these words, you listen at 'em. When I say imagine, I mean imagine. We imagine somewhere above the sun, moon, and stars that Jesus Christ, He's gone off and left us and He'll be back after awhile. And when He does come back, so they say, He will be looking for a church without spot or wrinkle. Now isn't that the way you've been, ain't that the way you been taught? You know that's so as well as I do. That's your teaching. Well now, that's not so. I don't know no other plainer way to tell you than that. That's not so. Then, He's not gone off either, and God is not an antique God. He's right up to date. The same yesterday, today, and forever and He is ever present, always present, not.., hasn't went off somewhere to come back to. There is no where He is not. And if I understand what the Church is, it is the Body of Christ, so says the apostles.

Now if the Church is the Body of Christ, do you mean to tell me that He has gone off and left it and expects to come back and find it without spot or wrinkles? Don't make sense. It just don't make no sense. Now He's the Head of the Church Himself. The Church is the Body of Christ; now how is He gonna run off and leave His own Body? Then He's gonna come back after His own Body and He's gonna take His own Body back to heaven. We've got Him running in and out of heaven and carrying on like that, now all that stupidity and ignorance is bad. Nothing but a bunch of carnal minded... But look, don't you overlook this, all of this false and erroneous doctrine was supposed to be in the world. And if it was not in the world, then the Bible wouldn't be right because the Bible says that it is, will be. And there is an accurate description of these last days, about the conduct, the disposition of the people and the teaching that they receive, which got 'em all confused.

Now I wanted to kinda mention two or three things to you, so that you can kind of begin to see where it's twisted up at. First is, as Dr. Jackson has told you, you've got to have some kind of a pattern, some kind of a plan. You've got to know what God's purpose is; how He works it out through the dispensations. You don't want to take a Bible and go into the Bible and start to reading. 'Well, I've read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. I've read it four or five times.' And you wanna boast around about you reading the Bible. Why there's thousands of people that have read the Bible through and through, many, many times and don't, still don't know nothing about it. They don't know nothing about it. They don't know nothing about the Bible, they don't know nothing about God, they don't know nothing about the devil. And all he's got is just puffed up in his carnal, stupid, and ignorant mind and imagining he knows something. And He don't even realize when he's even convicted his own self.

As Dr. Jackson says, the New Testament, why we're reading it all the time, 'Read and known of all men.' Now I don't care what your profession is. It just really doesn't make any difference. All you have got to do is get up here where I am, I mean in this pulpit, and open your mouth, start to talking and anybody that's been around this school any length of time can tell whether you got the Holy Ghost. Now you can cry if you want to, act all humble and just as humble as you please, but they can tell whether you've got the Holy Ghost. You can't tool nobody that's got the Holy Ghost with your apparent voluntary humility. You just can't do that, can't deceive nobody like that.

Then, as I said before, when it comes to knowing the purpose of God and how it's worked out, you'll have an awful job trying to find some religious organization that knows something about it. 'Which one would you refer to?' They've been asking that question. 'What church is right? Tell me, so I'll know where to go and what church to join,' or something, isn't that, isn't that what... Well, you, you can't point nobody out to no church over here that's right according to the Book. It just isn't, just isn't, they're not here like that. Well now maybe I might have to kinda draw in the horns a little bit here.

Right across the street over here, we have here The Foundation of Human Understanding; and God forbid that I say anything about them that I ought not to say. And in the meantime, in the meantime they are no worse than the rest of 'em. Be that as bad as it is. No worse than the rest of 'em, if you was gonna grade 'em. Now, 'Why did you say that?' Now I have some of the literature. Now if it is the Foundation of Human Understanding, as I would like to accept it that they're teaching human beings to have some understanding, course they didn't say of what, well now how do you understand? What's your premises? What's your pattern? What's your plan? How does it work out to elevate me to a human understanding? Understanding of what? God or the devil or, or, anything else. You got to have some premises. You don't just come up and say, 'Well, understand,' and you don't know what you're.., to trying to understand. You don't do it that way.

Now in this school, being the dean of it myself.., and when I say that I don't say it boastingly. It don't mean a thing to me. It's just one of them required things, legally require, required. And so far as The Institute of Divine Metaphysical Research, so far as the name and all that kinda thing is concerned, it's no better than the rest of it out there. I'm talking about the name, people wanna know about, it ain't no bigger sounding than anything else. You got some out there sounding big as this, so it wouldn't mean any more than the Foundation of Human Understanding unless there was something in it. Now if there's something here, then that's what makes the difference: understanding God, understanding your fellow man, understanding the devil, understanding God's purpose and how it's carried out. Now, out of all of the organizations out there that I've been, had the privilege of being among... I'm real serious with you tonight cause more than likely I won't be able to speak to you again for a short while. I'll tell you about that before I leave, fully.

Now look, give me a Bible somebody. Now it really doesn't make any difference whether you are a Protestant or a Catholic. Find me the New Testament there. That's what I wanna talk about. And I wanna loosen my coat because I'm gonna get serious about this thing. Do you remember the last time I spoke? We had one of them long drawn out... Do you remember that, last Sunday? Everybody got tired, me too. It was indeed two services, classes we had. Well now the occasion for that, the reason for that is because even after you read the Bible and don't understand it, you're, you're just, you're, you're worse messed up than you was in the first place. Now it doesn't make any difference whether it is a Roman Catholic, a Douay version or a King James, American Standard. It don't make no difference. All of 'em have got this... I want you to see what I'm talking about and I want you to understand cause I'm gonna try to bring the thing to you forceful enough tonight for you to comprehend, to understand, if you want to. Now I recognize the fact that you haven't had much of an opportunity before you come to school. You just didn't have no chance to learn, that's why I'm telling you. Whether it's Roman Catholicism or Protestantism, all the Bibles you got in here: it's 'The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.' They all got it. That's definitely and positively is wrong. It's wrong. This is not the New Testament, no parts of it. One reason why it isn't the New Testament, because the New Testament is not written with pen and ink and it is not written in no book. Now just no need of arguing, it's just not. Now I'm gonna prove it, prove it by your Bible. Second Corinthians, the third chapter of second Corinthians. All I'm asking you to do, just take what you're reading, don't twist it, leave it alone. Somebody get it and read. Now see where all these erroneous ideas come from, all these false doctrines, these satanic philosophies. Whoever has it, please read it. Third chapter of second Corinthians, begin with the first verse.

READER: Do we begin again to commend

DR. KINLEY: Now the Apostle Paul says, 'Do we.' We who? The apostles and the teachers of Christ. Do we begin again to commend ourselves?

READER: or need we DR. KINLEY: or need we, or is it necessary READER: as some others DR. KINLEY: As some others do READER: Epistles of

DR. KINLEY: Wait a minute. Paul was one of 'em that had hisself a license or a commendation from the High Priest on the road going down to Damascus. Do you wanna chew the rag about that? And he come to find out that that wasn't no good. Had the authority from the High Priest. You've read all about it. Now he said, now, 'Do we begin again to commend ourselves,' or is it necessary? It's not necessary for me to come bring you a piece of paper and say, 'Look here brethren, see here, I got the Holy Ghost.' No, just go ahead on and talk. I don't care where you got the paper from, you just start to talking, talking in front of somebody that's got the Holy Ghost. That'll tell the tale, won't it. Alright, read on.

READER: epistles of commendation to you,

DR. KINLEY: Epistles of commendation, or recommendations to you or from you. Either way, take it to and from, pro and con. Alright, read on.

READER: or letters of commendation from you DR. KINLEY: Or letters of commendation. That's what you call ministers' licenses. Alright, read on. READER: Ye are our epistles DR. KINLEY: Huh? READER: Ye are our epistles

DR. KINLEY: Ye are our... I want it plain here. Ye are our epistles. You are the epistles yourself, not the letter that Paul wrote up to Galatia and Corinth and Ephesus and what not. You are the epistles. Alright, read on.

READER: written in our hearts

DR. KINLEY: Oh no, umm, umm. Never. Now it just don't do no good to read unless you're gonna get some understanding about the thing. Said, 'Ye are our epistles, written in our hearts.' Read.

READER: known and read of all men

DR. KINLEY: Known. You are no stranger or no foreigner to somebody else that's got the Holy Ghost. And you don't need to think, as Dr. Jackson said, because you got off of the end of a whiskey bottle, or throwed away a plug of Brown's Mule, and quit smoking cigarettes that that's any sign to us that you be, that you're a Christian. Just open your mouth and start to talking, that'll tell the tale, 'Ye are our epistles, written in our hearts, read and known of all men.' We're reading you. Alright, read on.

READER: For as much as you are manifestly de DR. KINLEY: For as much then as ye are. You. Are what? READER: manifestly DR. KINLEY: manifestedly READER: declared DR. KINLEY: declared READER: to be the epistle of Christ DR. KINLEY: to be the epistles of Christ. READER: ____

DR. KINLEY: Now wait a minute. You, yourself, are manifestly declared to be the epistles of Christ. You. So now when you're standing around with all that, well, all that hatefulness, all that diabolical and ignominious, that hateful disposition and attitude; talking about, 'I'm trying to be a Christian, I'm doing all I know.' Well if you don't know no better than that, you don't know nothing. Alright, let's take that. How does.., John said, how do you know? How do you know? He ain't asking somebody else; how do you know that you have passed from death unto life? How do you know it? Not talking about the other fellow, talking about you. How do you know? By your testimony and your hypocrisy and running your mouth? No. That ain't how you know it. This is how you know it, that you have passed from death. This back here is the ministration of death. This over here is the ministration of life. Now, how do you know that you have passed from death unto life? Just setting right where you are with your mouth closed, is when you love the brethren. Them that you can see, them that you know, them that do have the Holy Ghost, and you don't despise them, as Paul said in the first chapter of Romans, hating and despising them that are good. Ye are our epistles, written in our hearts, read and known of all men. As much then as you manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ. You're that. I better rush on, cause I got a lotta ground to cover and I got to cover it quickly and shortly too, but you got that.

Now what I'm talking about folks, so don't come back with no ignorance, I'm talking about Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the Acts of Apostles, and the epistles. I'm telling you that that is not the New Testament as it is said to be in Protestant and Roman Catholic Bibles. Now is that clear? Alright, but you are the epistle of Christ, read and known of all men.

Deceiving or being fooled about something, people come out and say, 'Well, what church do you belong to?' And he wants to make it a good one, says, 'Well, I belong to the Church of God.' I'm supposed to have you then. 'I belong to the Church of Christ. Now that's supposed to make me good.' Yes, I have to agree with you, that you do belong there, but you are not there, by your testimony, because you don't know what it is; you don't know what He is, I should say. And Paul said, 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he's none of His.' And here the Church of Christ down there, they're talking about if you wasn't back there then at Pentecost, said, you didn't, you, you didn't get the Holy Ghost. Now here the Book, Paul says, 'if any man have not the Spirit of Christ then he's none of His.' Well what, what's, what's, what's he talking about? He's admitted and confessed that he didn't have the Holy Ghost. And if he don't have the Holy Ghost, and the Holy Ghost hasn't got him, he hasn't got nothing. Then this wasn't just a thing4) * 1964: YOU ARE AN EPISTLE *

that happened here on Pentecost and down here at Cornelius' house and God went on back into oblivion.

This is the purpose of God, all through this age: 'This gospel shall be preached in all the world', or meaning all the age, all of this whole age. And an age is approximately 2000 years long. How in the world do you think, and where do you think that God is going to get all that great numbers the sands of the sea from, if the gospel down through the years isn't gonna be preached and if the people are not gonna have the Holy Ghost? Where is God going to get 'em from? That's what they teach out there in the Church of Christ.

LASALLE WILLIAMS: That's right. DR. KINLEY: Am I, am I right about it Dr. Williams? LASALLE WILLIAMS: You're right about it. DR. KINLEY: You're from there, aren't you? LASALLE WILLIAMS: I'm a preacher from there.

DR. KINLEY: And you was around there long enough to find out something about what they teach, about 17, 18 years. Is that somewhere near right?

LASALLE WILLIAMS: You're right, Doc.

DR. KINLEY: And I'd say that the gospel was preached with the Holy Ghost too, long before Pentecost. Peter said, 'The holy men of God spake as they was moved by the Holy Ghost,' and said, 'They searching what manner of time.' Listen folks, the Spirit of Christ in them, the prophets, from Enoch on down, did signify, and preached the gospel and do with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven.

Well now let's, let's, let's get this straightened out about this epistle, so we can stop saying that. Now here's the importance of it, of me telling you this. Every time you turn around in both Protestant's and Catholic's churches, they're saying, 'Well, the New Testament teaches thus and so forth and so on,' and they read something to you out of Matthew, something out of Mark, something out of Luke, something out of John. And they say, 'That's New Testament teaching.' No, that's not it. For example, Matthew 26:26, most all of 'em take the communion, except the Quakers. Say, 'Well, what do you do that for?' Then they run up in Matthew 26:26 and say this: 'Why the New, that's the New Testament teaching.' No, that's... Suppose you read the verse.

READER: And as they were eating DR. KINLEY: And as they were eating READER: Jesus took bread DR. KINLEY: Jesus took bread READER: and blessed it DR. KINLEY: and blessed it READER: and brake it DR. KINLEY: and brake it READER: and gave it to the disciples DR. KINLEY: and gave it to the disciples READER: and said, DR. KINLEY: and said, READER: take, eat DR. KINLEY: take READER: eat; DR. KINLEY: eat READER: this is my body

DR. KINLEY: This is my body. Now they said that that was in the New Testament. I tell you it is not in the New Testament, what he just read. And ain't that where the devil goes after, defending himself? Now what is the difference? So we can get straightened out. So we can get straightened out.

Now Jesus Christ when He come in the world, when He come in the world, His birth fulfilled the prediction of the prophet: 'A virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son and thou shalt call His name Emmanuel.' Not Jesus, I said Emmanuel. And He said, 'Think not that I come to destroy the Law or the Prophets, but I come to fulfill.' Listen folks. 'And verily, verily I say unto you that one jot or one tittle of the law of the law,' the old law, 'and of the prophecy shall pass away until it is all fulfilled.' Is that what He said?

STUDENTS: Right. STUDENT: No. He said 'shall not pass.'

DR. KINLEY: Shall not pass. That's right. Just couldn't pass. Now look, the first covenant's got to be removed before the second can come of effect. So then that means that He's got to fulfill.

Now I just got through telling you about Him being born, didn't I? Matthew 1:21, 'That's,' they say, 'That's in the New Testament.' Alright. Galatians 4:4. Don't, don't, don't leave over there where I had you reading cause I'll be back there. Somebody, whoever has it.

READER: But when the fullness of the time was come,

DR. KINLEY: Now Matthew.., Isaiah prophesied a virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son, and you know that Daniel spoke about 70 weeks from the going forth of the commandment unto Artexerxes for this virgin to bring forth a son. Prophecy I'm talking about. Well now, He was born, born on time. Now Galatians 4:4 says He was born under the Old Testament, not the New Testament. He was born under the Old Testament, not the New Testament. And if He's gonna fulfill it, I'm trying to make it plain, so any idiot can see. Now before any of it can pass, it's all got to stand as is until it's all fulfilled, the Old Covenant, the Law, before the New Covenant or the New Testament; the Old Testament or the New Testament... Now He was born. You read.

READER: But when the fullness of the time had come DR. KINLEY: but when the fullness of time was come READER: God sent forth his son DR. KINLEY: God sent forth his son READER: made of a woman DR. KINLEY: made of a woman READER: made under the law DR. KINLEY: made under the law, folks. Made under the law. Read. READER: to redeem them that were under the law DR. KINLEY: to redeem them that were under the law READER: that we might receive the adoption of sons DR. KINLEY: that we might receive the adoption of what? READER: sons.

DR. KINLEY: the sons, not saints. Now I believe in putting these words down here straight. Now look, right while you're there, suppose you just turn over to Hebrews 9:17.

READER: For a testament is of force

DR. KINLEY: Now you see, we're talking about a testament. We're talking about the Old and the New Testament. Now look, when you read, start to reading in Matthew, it tells you about the virgin, tells you about His birth, tells you about His life. And you call it even the Gospel according to Saint Matthew, the Gospel according to Saint Mark, the Gospel according to Saint Luke, the Gospel according to Saint John. And then we're stupid enough to get up and say, 'Well look, I believe in the four gospels. The four gospels.' I'm.., what I'm trying to tell you is, I haven't found nothing much that has been, that you been taught that's right. Nothing. Everything is distorted. Romans 1:16. It's right there, I can't go no further than that.

READER: For I am not ashamed DR. KINLEY: I am not ashamed READER: of the gospel DR. KINLEY: of the four gospels READER: The gospel.

DR. KINLEY: Do you see? Do you see what I'm talking about? All four of those men was testifying of one and the same thing, and that was the Gospel. Paul said, 'I am not ashamed of the Gospel.' Well, why aren't you ashamed of it Paul?

READER: for it is the power of God

DR. KINLEY: That's a conjunction, ain't that right? And, but, if, and for. Now here's the reason why I'm not ashamed of it: for it is...

READER: the power of God DR. KINLEY: It is the power of God. READER: unto salvation DR. KINLEY: unto salvation or deliverance. Read. READER: to everyone DR. KINLEY: to everyone. Read. READER: that believeth DR. KINLEY: that believeth READER: to the Jew first DR. KINLEY: to the Jew first READER: and also to the Gentiles

DR. KINLEY: And then also to the Gentiles. Now in other words, I'm telling you this: when the gospel, which is the power of God, is preached, and you believe this gospel, it becomes effective in you and that keeps you from being ashamed. You're not talking about a God far off somewhere. Paul wanted to know Him in the power of His resurrection. That's working within me. He says, 'I'm not ashamed of it and the reason why I'm not ashamed of it, because it is the power of God to everyone, not some of 'em, but everybody that believes that God raised Christ from the dead.' This is effective enough in him to not make him ashamed.

STUDENT BODY: That's right.

[TAPE 1, SIDE 2]


DR. KINLEY: No, I'm not ashamed. Somebody said, 'well, look here, you don't understand, I come out of college.' I don't care where you come from. Paul said, 'if though we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel to you than that which we are preaching, let him be an anathema.' I'm not ashamed of it, not being embarrassed at all.

But the way these folks carry on that call theirself got the Holy Ghost out there, I'm just as ashamed of that as I can be. And the way these preachers carry on, and all these erroneous doctrines, Satan incarnated in them physical bodies, I'm just as ashamed of it as I can be. It's embarrassing to say you're a minister, because they come a thinking right away that you're like that other fellow. And they have been so corrupt, it's just embarrassing. He's up in the pulpit there talking about... being preachers, trying to disguise themselves into being, thinking that they're preachers. They used to wear a clergy vest turned backwards, but now they done took it off and you can't tell 'em from anybody else, nobody but the Roman Catholics, cause they just done so bad: we've got up and told folks first one thing and then another. We've got up and told 'em that what you have to do is clean up and straighten out, straighten up, quit drinking whiskey; and they call that preaching. The very thing we told them that they had to stop doing in order to be a Christian, they caught us doing. They say you got to quit running around after women, and here we are running around after women. That's the way they find it. It's just embarrassing. Alright, read on.

READER: For a testament is of force after men are dead

DR. KINLEY: Now, wait a minute. Now Freddy, now you don't mean to tell me that we are stupid enough to let the devil stand up and tell us, in your book, that Matthew is writing about the birth and the life, and Mark is writing about the birth and the life. That's what you're reading about, and even, now remember, I told you that Jesus, the night before He died, He stood up and said there in Matthew 26:26, said, 'This is my body which is broken for you.' And you said it was in the New Testament. I just got through telling you it wasn't in there, it's not in the New Testament. I told you why, said, because the New Testament's not written with pen and ink. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, said, 'well, what is it then, if that's not the New Testament, Mr. Smart Alec, now just what is it?' That's the biography, biography of Him in the days of His flesh. Doing what? Fulfilling the Law and the Prophets. Don't that make sense to you when you read the Bible? He was born under the Law to redeem them under the Law. He was born under the Law, lived under the Law, did what the Law said, jot and tittle, and none of it could pass. When I say born under the Law, or the Old Covenant, I mean He was born under the Old Testament, I mean He lived under the Old Testament, and I mean what Matthew and Mark and Luke and John is writing about here is under the Old Testament, not the New Testament. Freddy, is that clear? To redeem them that are under the Law. Now you just got, now you're working with Hebrews 9:17 and this is what you said, this is what you read, said, 'a testament...' Maybe you better read.

READER: For a testament is of force after men are dead

DR. KINLEY: For a testament is of force after. Don't you see He's in it, walking around fulfilling the Law under the Old Covenant, under the Old Testament. And a testament is of force after death, not before men are dead. Why, you take your civil law down here. My father could be a rich man, somebody ____ ____ ____ ____, can't say he was. If my father was a rich man, as long as my father lives, his will and testament, I could not get it until after he died. Well, don't you see, don't you see he's writing about Him while He was living? See how the devil distorted that?

And He said this, here's something else He said that's not there. He said that Jesus taking bread that night and brake it and gave it to them, and He said, 'take and eat.' Now the devil does this, goes back over there to prove that the Lord's Supper is right, and Christ ate. Now look folks, not one Gentile was present. And He certainly was alive that night. And a testament cannot come of force until after He's dead. Now you can argue all you want to, but that's the straight of it. And you're forced to conclude that you were taught wrong, that is if you're gonna accept the truth. And as long as you don't accept the truth in its reality, you are going to have, I will assure you, a condemned conscience. There's no way out of it. Testament is of force after men are dead. Read.

READER: otherwise DR. KINLEY: Now while He's walking around, otherwise READER: it is of no strength DR. KINLEY: There ain't nothing to it. READER: at all, while the testator lives

DR. KINLEY: There's no strength at all while the testator lives. You'll never, if your father made a will ____ ____ go down to the bank. It ain't gonna do you a bit of good, you can't get a thing, you can't get it until after he dies. Go to all the courts in the country and you can't get it until after his decease. It's of force after he's dead. The will becomes effective after he's dead. Now see where the devil told you wrong about it?

Now we talked about it written with pen and ink. We also said you was the epistle of Christ, well now let's see who said that. This is what they done, when I begin to teach. That's the reason why this school was founded is because the devil will not take ____ out there and pass his judgment. Now he's forced the founding of this school. We have a legal privilege to tell you the truth. Now they have said this to me, 'Well, if you're so smart, why don't you come on over here among us and help us to learn something.' Well, look, we've tried to break into 'em for 33 years. They won't stand for it. Even some of you all, somewhere around 30 of 'em, went down there on Adams Street and tried to break in the Church of God, I mean, the Church of Christ. Went down there and they said ba.., water baptism was right and went down there and took our bathing clothes and offered to get baptized, we knew there wasn't nothing to it, to get baptized, and they wouldn't stand for that. Well, one excuse was they didn't, they wasn't prepared to baptize that night, they didn't have the pool ready. Well look, (STUDENT BODY and DR. KINLEY LAUGH) that don't make sense Rip. It don't make no kinda sense. What business have you got going out here and preaching the gospel unprepared. (STUDENT BODY AND DR. KINLEY LAUGH) Do you see what I'm talking about? Unprepared. You better get prepared before you start. Now do you see through that?

Now, now do you see through that? Now let's see now, somebody said, 'Well now, who said that?' Don't forget you're still reading in the third chapter of second Corinthians, too. Told you not to leave there. Read. Ye are our epistles written in our hearts.

READER: read and known of all men DR. KINLEY: read and know of all men. Read on. READER: manifestly declared DR. KINLEY: manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ. Alright, read on. READER: written in our hearts, read and know of all men DR. KINLEY: written in our hearts, read and know of all men. Read on. READER: ministered by us DR. KINLEY: ministered by us. Alright. READER: written not with ink DR. KINLEY: Oh, oh, now, Doc, now look, now you ought to read better than that. READER: That's what it says.

DR. KINLEY: Now that's what he says it says. Is that the way your Bible reads? Written not with ink. Well, if it wasn't written with ink, how was it written?

READER: but with the spirit of the living God

DR. KINLEY: Now can't you see that if you don't have the Holy Spirit there ain't no writing in you? And if if was like they said, Dr. Williams down there, Paul said they, that the Holy Spirit had made them able ministers of the New Covenant, of the New Testament. Our sufficiency is not of ourselves, now with that Holy Ghost writing in there. Writing what? Writing the New Testament in you. The Old Covenant or the Old Testament, say look folks, I'm telling you what's in the Book, the Old Covenant was written in tables of stone and placed in the Ark of the Covenant. That's where God told Moses to put it. And that placing the tables of stone in the Ark of the Covenant was typical. If, if this was written by the finger of God, it was typical and pointing to Him writing in fleshly tables of your heart, and that's without a pen and ink, because this one was written with the finger of God, and you just read 'written with the Spirit.' Is that what you read?

READER: That's right. DR. KINLEY: Alright, read. READER: not in tables of stone

DR. KINLEY: Say, Doc, wait a minute, suppose you just look over there at the, at that New Testament thing, the first chapter of Luke. And the first, the first verse, first chapter of Luke. Now we're gonna get this right, straightened out.

READER: For as much as many have taken in hand DR. KINLEY: Now as much as many have taken in hand READER: to set forth in order a declaration of DR. KINLEY: to set forth in order a declaration

READER: of those things which are most surely believed among us. Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word

DR. KINLEY: That's right, and as much so... Repeat what you just read. READER: even as they delivered them unto us, DR. KINLEY: No, I mean the first verse. READER: For as much as

DR. KINLEY: For as much as the other apostles. They had written. That encouraged Luke to do some writing with some pen and ink. Now that's what I'm after. Now the apostles, they was writing with pen and ink, but now Paul said the New Covenant, or the New Testament, is not written with pen and ink, but is written with... And I want to show you that Luke was writing, Luke was writing, Matthew was writing, Mark is writing. Now you got that all straight? Now, Jeremiah 31:31. Read.

READER: Behold, the days come, saith the Lord DR. KINLEY: Behold, the days come READER: that I will make a New Covenant DR. KINLEY: That man said. That's the way they put it on me. Alright, read. READER: Behold, the days come, saith the Lord DR. KINLEY: Behold, the days come, saith the Lord READER: that I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel DR. KINLEY: that I will make a New Covenant or a New Testament READER: with the house of Israel DR. KINLEY: with the house of Israel READER: and with the house of Judah DR. KINLEY: and with the house of Judah READER: not according to the covenant

DR. KINLEY: Now look. Say, Doc, listen, now I'm not gonna make one according to the one that I made with them when I took you.., and brought 'em out of the wilderness. I'm not gonna make one like that. Well, what kind was that then? That was the first test.., the covenant stood only, if you don't believe it's in the Book, I will read, the first covenant, or the first testament stood only in meats and drinks and diverse washings and carnal ordinance until the time of the reformation. Now God says, I'm not gonna make another one like that. 'Well, why, God?' Cause they broke this one back here. Now here comes the hypocrite, by and by, coming up here, doing the things that was done under the law and under the Old Covenant: washing feet, keeping the Sabbath.

Yes, you keep the Sabbath, you wash feet too, but you don't do it that way, do it the new way. Jesus said to the disciples, Peter and them, in the 13th chapter of Saint John, when He was washing the feet, Peter did know that He was washing his feet there with that basin of water, and He said to Peter, said, 'You don't know what I do now, but you shall know hereafter.' What do you mean? Hereafter you'll know that I'm the Word of God washing your feet. And if I don't wash you, the Word of God don't wash you, you certainly will not be clean. Then Paul said, in the third chapter of Titus, in the fifth verse: 'it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us by the washing of regeneration and the renewing of the Holy Ghost.' Is that something like Paul told Titus? It's not by that. Now, you are not gonna get anywhere with God by doing anything at all that was under the other covenant. And there ain't no need of you setting up and lying on God like that, claiming you done merited to earn the Holy Ghost and that you're obeying Christ and you're obeying God. No you're not. That's doctrine of men you're obeying. Alright, read.

READER: But this shall be the Covenant

DR. KINLEY: Now wait a minute now. You might, say, 'Well, what is a covenant, or what is a testament?' 'Who said so?' Some of 'em went out and said, 'That man said,' because I taught 'em something contrary to what they been taught all their life, then they went out and put it on me and said I said it.

These erroneous doctrines. That's what you got. And they beat me up for it too; ____ ____. Punched out at me. I told you, I come to tell you the truth about it. I didn't come... This is not a social gathering. This is not a ritualistic performance. Preach the truth. Somebody said, 'Well, I don't believe it.' Paul said, 'well, what if some don't believe? Does that make it of none effect?' The purpose of God will not miscarry just because you don't believe it. He's got a place for all them that don't believe. And you remember Paul said, 'I'm not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believes, to the Jew first and then also to the Gentile. If you don't wanna believe it, it don't mean a thing to you. Get the point? Believe what? Believe the gospel; the reality of the thing. 'Sure, I know, but that ain't the way I was taught.' I understand that. 'Well, all of my folks was brought up like that.' Um hum. All of these folks was brought up too. And God chose all about ____, and God killed every last one of 'em, ____ from Joshua. Is that right?

STUDENT BODY: Yes, sir.

DR. KINLEY: Yes indeed. And look, folks, the angels that sinned in heaven, God cast them out. John said there in Revelation. Dragon was cast out and his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven. And now all, after all these folks got ____, and all them that sinned were cast out of heaven. How do you think you're gonna get by? Can you explain that? Get the point? Now there's no need of you running up, running up in God's face and you're going to push your way in and crowd your way in.

Up, jump aboard a cloud, as he says out there in Eagle Rock. The preacher out there preaching, they wanted us, for me to help get him up, back up in the world. He sold his church and all the folks got down and sold his church too. Now you're sitting up out there. You heard the man. He sold the church. Sold the church. (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) Got himself a bad reputation. Got down and hadn't preached around ten years and now here we are trying to pry him up, get him back up, his reputation back up. And there he was out there talking about getting on a planet and waving to somebody else on another planet. Say, 'Well, where you going there?' Say, 'I'm going to the fellowship meeting.' (STUDENT BODY LAUGHS) That's the honest to God truth. The man did say it. Now you all were setting right there in the church. Now that means he's going to heaven, fellowship meeting. Now when I got up and I got to preaching, he was.., I'm supposed to be helping him up. He's supposed to come down here and preach, after he got through with all that. And I made sure, 'Yeah, you're welcome, come on down, sure, come on down.' You all know all about it. The man ain't, hasn't been here yet. I said, 'Well, I'll tell him about the fellowship meeting.' I told him that Paul said in the twelfth chapter of Hebrews, 'Ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched as a natural thing, but ye are come unto God and unto Jesus and unto the heavens.' Now are come, not, not going, not going to it, and to an innumerable company of angels and to the general assembly and the church of the firstborn, whose names are enrolled in heaven. Now that's where we are. We have come to God. You say, 'God is spirit.' Well, we've come to the Spirit. We've come to Jesus. 'Jesus stepped aboard a cloud and He got on home.' Folks, we got ____ somehow or other. Ain't that what your Book says? That you are come unto God and you are come unto the heavenly Jerusalem and unto Jesus. Ain't that what it says?

STUDENT BODY: Yeah. It's exactly what it says.

DR. KINLEY: And to an innumerable company of angels? Now, where is this place you're gonna to ____ ____ ____ bring fire to, that these preachers is promising ____ ____ 'Come on let's get started and go to heaven tonight.' Somebody over there, setting up a altar, '____ ____ ____ ____ Holy Ghost, you better quit meddling with my religion. My mother and my father, they died in the thing and they went on to heaven. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me.' Well, now listen, now your head is not so hard that God can't soften it, cause as Dr. Jackson said here, Paul said, 'As I live, saith the Lord.' Who said that?

STUDENT BODY: The Lord.

DR. KINLEY: Said that in Corinthians. 'As I live?' And he's quoting back yonder, 'Saith the Lord, as I live, saith the Lord.' Who said that? The Lord to me. 'Every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess Christ to the glory of God,' or to the satisfaction of God. Now listen, you have to do it anyhow, you just might as well break down and do it now. Paul said, 'For this cause I and my shall give honor and glory to Him.' Then and now. Well somebody said, 'I got too much starch there.' All ____ ____ it'll break up. You just gonna have to do it just the same, so sooner or later, so you just might as well let it be sooner. You see my point? See how mean a preacher I am? How positive, dogmatic. Read.

READER: but this shall be the covenant that I will make

DR. KINLEY: But this, now this is it. Now listen, if God said this is it, then this has got to be it. Don't put it on me. This, God said this is it. Alright, read.

READER: that I will make with the house of Israel

DR. KINLEY: Now this is what I'm, this is what I'm gonna, this is the covenant or agreement that I'm gonna make with the house of Israel.

READER: after those days

DR. KINLEY: Now you just read in Hebrews 9 and 17, that a testament is of force after men are dead. Now here's Jeremiah prophesying about that same covenant, said that this shall be the testament, not Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. They're not making the testament, this is God that's making the testament or the covenant agreement. This shall be the testament that I will make. Got that straight? Alright, read on.

READER: after those days DR. KINLEY: After the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ READER: saith the Lord DR. KINLEY: What else? READER: I will put my law in their inward parts

DR. KINLEY: Now look, now wait a minute, Doc. Is this..? Did you go to school too? Now look here, give me a, give me a Book. Now, who'd you say, said they was gonna do that? Read.

READER: after those days, saith the Lord DR. KINLEY: Now after those days, saith the Lord READER: I will put

DR. KINLEY: Now, He's gonna do that. Now can't you, are you so stupid that you can't see up there that Matthew wrote that? Are you so stupid you can't see that Mark wrote that? Are you so stupid you can't see that John wrote that? Get the point? Now God's gonna do this. God is gonna write it in their heart, not Matthew, not Mark, not Luke, not John, not Paul, not Peter. I will put my law in their hearts, not with pen and ink, but in your heart. Now listen, if God said that, it don't make no difference what the devil says about that what God means. Alright, read.

READER: I will put my law in their inward parts and I will write it in their hearts. DR. KINLEY: I will put my law in their inward parts and write it in their hearts. READER: and I will be their God DR. KINLEY: And I, then I'm gonna be their God. READER: and they shall be my people DR. KINLEY: and then they shall be my people. Read on. READER: and they teach no more every man his neighbor

DR. KINLEY: They shall, won't be no necess.., won't be no need of teaching every man his neighbor, cause you can't teach nohow, Dr. Jackson told you that. What we need to do is concentrate and look at what we're talking about and not just set up and be gullible. He told you that the, Jesus said when the Comforter is come, which is the Holy Ghost, He will teach you, He will guide you. You don't think that's that way? Give me a, give me a, give me a couple of minutes. Hold what you got there. Look at Saint John. Just look at it. 14:26.

READER: But the Comforter DR. KINLEY: But the Comforter READER: which is the Holy Ghost DR. KINLEY: which is the Holy Ghost READER: whom the Father will send DR. KINLEY: whom the Father will send READER: in my name DR. KINLEY: in my name READER: he shall teach you DR. KINLEY: Huh? READER: he shall teach you.

DR. KINLEY: Oh no. No, no. It can't be like that. I'm the teacher, you're the teacher, reverend is the teacher. Yes, Reverend is the teacher, but you got the wrong reverend. Ain't but one: that's the Reverend God. Reverend, he don't know what a reverend is. Now you see I'm showing you how we distort and twist and mess up this Bible. How the devil blindfolds us, how we just set up there as ____ as ____ ____ and got it all, in all kinds of confusion. Now, if you went out there in Christendoom and you tried to, to tell them just what I have told you here tonight about this, almost everybody out there'd say you were wrong.

STUDENT BODY: That's right.

DR. KINLEY: You'd have an awful time trying to find somebody to tell you you're right. The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, He'll teach, and then what?

READER: teach you all things DR. KINLEY: No, no, teach you some things. READER: All.

DR. KINLEY: Teach you all things. All things relegated to what? The purpose of God, His plan through the dispensations and ages. Teach You all things. What else?

READER: and bring all things to your remembrance,

DR. KINLEY: He didn't need to make no record or nothing write down, and say, 'here keep this as a commemoration.' He didn't need to do that. He didn't write nothing with no, no pen and ink, 'you need this.' No guide. Why? Cause He's gonna put the Sp..., Holy Ghost in him, write His law in his heart. He's gonna be his God, and then He's gonna, they're gonna be His people. And then when the Comforter is come, He's gonna do the teaching, and He's gonna be the guide, and He's gonna be the lead, head, listen, He's gonna make the intercession because you don't know how to pray as you ought, but the Holy Spirit will make the intercession for you according to the purpose and the will of God. If you don't think that's in the Book, I'll read. Say, why don't we start reading our Bibles once in awhile at home. Catch up with some of this stupidity and ignorance. I've read everything out of the Book, haven't I? Alright, read.

READER: And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor DR. KINLEY: They shall teach no more every man his neighbor READER: and every man his brother, saying DR. KINLEY: and every man his brother READER: know the Lord DR. KINLEY: saying, know the Lord. READER: for they shall all know me

DR. KINLEY: Every last one that has got the Holy Ghost obeys God and got the Holy Spirit in him, that's what teaches him. That's the reason why when you open your big mouth, I open my big mouth, if the Holy Ghost ain't in there, I'm reading, 'And they're going to know everybody,' and that's without a piece of paper too, or your license, cause it's the Holy Ghost that does the teaching. Why don't we give God just a little credit? Wouldn't you think so? Now you see the difference? He'll teach.

Look, I want you to do something. Now, we talked about them epistles. And we talked about the New Covenant, where it's written in the heart. Said it wasn't written with pen and ink. We said that you are our epistles. Now here we turn over and show you.., we don't know nothing about the Bible nohow.

Now here's John on the Isle of Patmos in the 20th chapter of Revelation. Somebody talking about the great white throne of judgment, great big something up there in the sky. There it is up there. And here we come up to it, call out there every idle word; in other words, there's gonna a argument up there. You call that the judgment, white throne of judgment. Now here's what we don't see: we don't see that we're in the judgment now. And when did the judgment start? On the Day of Pentecost. And Peter said that all the house of Israel know for sure, know this for sure. Now, he said, listen close folks, in his epistle he said this, Peter, said, 'Now if judgment first begin with us, what shall be the end of them that obey not the Gospel?' Paul writing and talking about it, sixth chapter of first Corinthians. We oughta read once in a while, at least try to understand. 'Dare any of you having a matter against another to take 'em before the law of the unjust. Don't you know that the saints shall judge the world?' I'm telling you all the time. Well now, somebody said, 'Now wait a minute there, you got that all twisted up, the New Testament teaches this, here's Matthew 7:1. Jesus said judge not for fear ye may be judged. So whatsoever you make judgment on somebody else, well it's measured back to you again. Jesus said that. Now didn't He say that?' Yes, He did. And it is in there. They didn't have nothing to judge nobody with.

(PAUSE IN TAPE)

It don't make me read wrong. All you can say is ____ ____ ____. Alright read.

READER: And I saw the dead

DR. KINLEY: John said. Now listen, I'm talking about these epistles in the Book, remember, I just got through telling you about, I want you to listen at me, John said, 'I saw an angel come down from heaven having the key to the bottomless pit and the great chain in hand and laid hold on that old serpent, the devil, and bound him for a thousand years.' Thousand years, I'm just trying to cut it up short, not ____ ____ ____ ____ ____ point out. But when the thousand years was finished, Satan was loosed out of his prison and went forth upon the earth to deceive the nations in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog. Now do you mean you're setting up here and telling me you haven't heard about the Ecumenical Council? And when did he go, ____ ____ ____, Jerusalem, I mean physical Jerusalem, which is an allegory of Jerusalem above? Isn't that where Pope went to. Trace the footsteps of Christ and reached out there and grabbed a handful of them ____ right out there in the garden. Took a plane out because he's called the prince of the power of the air? He's the first one ever did leave that Vatican, first Pope loosed out of his prison, the Vatican. John said here, ____ ____ what we're talking about, where you're reading, is loosed after the thousand years was finished, to go out and deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth. All this junk that you got out here that the Pope is teaching is nothing but doctrines of the devils, and they're teaching you all kinds of erroneous lies about it. You get it now?

And then what happened? Said, then fire came down from God out of heaven. And John said, 'I', listen, 'I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God.' Now I'm gonna interpret this for you. 'Stand before God and the books were opened.' What books? Didn't you just read over there a while ago where it said that you were the epistle? You are an epistle. You are an epistle. You are our epistle. All of you are epistles. Do you see that now? Now here we are, all are together. And if you put us all together, if you put us all together, then what have you got? You got a book. It says the book was opened and the dead was judged out of those things was written in the book, and whosoever was not found in the Book of Life, the Lamb... Let me get this straight too, while I'm at it, because Roman Catholics are that, when you go to hell, there's no absolution for them. You can't get out of there. But it says death and hell delivered up the dead that were in them. Purgatory'd be emptied up. There never was a place, the sea and everything else, you got death, death and hell delivered up the dead that were in them. I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God.

[TAPE 2, SIDE 1]

DR. KINLEY: The prophets, the major and the minor prophets, that's a lotta stupidity too. There ain't no such thing as major and minor prophets. Everything you have been taught from scratch is wrong. If it is God talking through Jeremiah or Isaiah or Nehemiah or Nahum or something, whatever, when he gets to the end of what God is saying to him, that's the end of it. Neither one is greater than one or the other one. No, we say, 'Isaiah is one of the major, major prophets, the silver tongued orator. He's greater than Nahum or Habakkuk or some of 'em.' And yet and still, they're both prophesying of what God is showing 'em and telling 'em to prophesy, and when they get through doing with God, then they stop right there. If they went any further than that, then they'd be a liar and be false prophets.

So now the dead, when he seen that book opened and the dead were judged out of those things. Now here He is saying.., I just got through telling you, you're setting up here in the judgment now. Now look folks, we're going home but I just want to show you how stubborn, how bullheaded, how hateful and hellish the devil really is; and then dogmatic about it too; not consciously, not realizing that you're going to have to come up to it anyhow; and not realizing, not realizing, fully confident, and conscience condemned all the time, feel within yourself you're not what you ought to be. You feel it, try to hide it, try to cover it up, try to hypocrite around, trying to make somebody think that you're a Christian, try to make somebody think that you're a saint and by your testimony, 'I belong to the church.'

Let me say one more thing. The third chapter of the first epistle of Paul to Timothy says this, said, 'It's the spirit speaketh expressly in latter days, many shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of the devil.' They'll depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits. ____ ____. ____ ____ he's says he's gonna be holy, ____ ____ ____ seducing spirits and doctrines of devils, now you listen, 'commanding to abstain from meats and forbidding to marry.' Now look, you don't mean to tell me that you're so stupid until.., here you know good and well the Roman Catholic Church out down yonder forbid you to eat meat on a Friday. And they do forbid the priesthood to marry; in other words, they teach the celibacy of the priesthood. Now what are you gonna do, set out there and read it and then be that stupid? ____ ____. Look back at the priesthood back here. Zachariah was a priest, high priest, he certainly was the father of John the Baptist. Aaron certainly did, was the father of Nadab and Abihu. And all of those priests married. ____ ____ in the Roman Catholic Church allowed them to marry back then, but they stopped. What'd they stop 'em for? We're in the last days. Now you mean to tell me you're gonna set up there and chew the rag and argue and carrying on like that, right in the face of Truth? You're gonna deny now and say that Matthew wrote the New Testament, when it's not written with pen and ink, it's not written in that, says, 'you are the epistles.' Now are you gonna stand up there now in judgment, 'and the book was opened and another book,' the epistles all will be opened and here you are ____ ____ first begin with the Jew first, and then to the Gentile. Now are you gonna ____ ____. Then you're gonna have to ____ ____ ____. You're not getting by with anything so why not just break out and humble yourself before God?

Now I'm sorry and I apologize for keeping you but you won't be bothered with me for a few days. I'm fixing to leave and go back to the state of Ohio tomorrow night at 10:35 from International Airport. I told you this when I came here before and I've come back, so I want to let you know I'm going out. I wouldn't dare go off and then not tell you anything about it in advance. So I'm going back as I promised them I would do. Now the class and the school is growing up there when I left and they didn't want me to come back then and neither did I want to come just then, but we have some urgent business here and so now they want us to come back to the state of Ohio. And I'll go there and stay for three, or maybe four weeks, at the least, probably be there four weeks; in other words, I'm not the boss. And I'll have to stay there, just like what God told Paul up in Corinth when he was about to depart, said, 'Don't leave here cause I have much people here.' God had much people there.

Then you're arguing around about baptizing, about Paul baptizing, he didn't baptize nobody but Stephanas and Gaius and Crispus, out of all them much people. He said, I didn't baptize any of 'em, and all of them was Jews. What'd he baptize them for? The same purpose he circumcised Timothy and.., to get them people, persuade 'em on in. Did a lotta things. He was a good clown, ain't that right?

(STUDENT BODY SINGS "BLESSED BE THE TIE THAT BINDS"; MODERATOR READS DOXOLOGY: JUDE 23)