Viet Nam War

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Lecture given by Dr. Kinley in 1970.


Transcribed by Beverly Allen

Dr. Kinley: Now we have told you many times that there are people sitting right out there in the audience that had no license to preach, and they been sitting around here quite some time, that since they come in this school they’ve learned something for sure. And look, there isn’t anybody out there gonna turn any of ‘em around, I don’t have any fear of that at all. Just like Bishop Short said, “This is the end of the line, the bus just don’t go no further.” Now listen folks, I have been wrong. I preached 15 years in the Holiness Church, the Church of God. And I’ve told you this many times, and I was classified as a Bibliomaniac or a walking Bible, and they preached and they taught to live a holy consecrated life unto the Lord. And then I go on so that I might make you understand, I tell you that I am 74 years old going on 75. And I have told you time and time again I’ve been in the colleges and the universities. I’ve talked to the smartest boys there is on earth in any nationalities you wanna mention. And we do have some university people in this school. Now listen at what I’m saying. Now we have some that have been brought up in Jehovah’s Witnesses, some that have been brought up in the Roman Catholic Church, some that have been brought up in the Church of God or Holiness, some that have been brought up in any – you name it! You just go ahead and name it, and we’ve got it. Even Bishop Short here he’s been in a whole lot of things. Dr. Gross, he’s been in…and been baptized I don’t know how many different times to tell you about that. And every kind of way that somebody said it was the right way to be done that’s the way he did it.


Now here’s the thing I’m trying to get over to you, see there is a way that you can find out something for sure. Now that’s right. Now the responsibility is upon your shoulders to find out and to know for yourself. The old folks use to say this: “That in the judgment every tub was gonna have to sit on its own bottom, mama and papa couldn’t do you no good in that case.” Now if that be true, and you’re gonna have to appear before the judgment seat of Yahshua, listen, to give an account for the deeds done while you’re at home in your body, why would you be stupid enough to go out here and trust your salvation to somebody to lead you up a blind ally, something they don’t know nothing about, something you don’t know nothing about, now that just really doesn’t make sense. But now you think of all the people in this school, here and elsewhere around over the country and in the world, that have been in all these various different things, but when they got here, got to this, that does it. I told Dr. Gross and the Brethren there in Springfield, Ohio, where this school was born. It was born in 31, and in 36 I left Springfield to go to Cincinnati. Now this is what I told them when I left. I said "IF YOU NEVER SEE MY FACE AGAIN IN THE FLESH, IF YOU NEVER SEE ME NOWHERE ON EARTH IN THE FLESH, YOU WILL DIE JUST LIKE I LEAVE YOU." Is that what I told you?


Dr. Gross: That's right, um-hum


Dr. Kinley: Now when I left you know what the folks thought and said? Said “Now the devil’s gone, and now we’ll get them back in the churches which they came out of.” Nope, I’m sorry. And now there haven’t been a whole lot of people died since this school’s been established. And it’s, a lot of times people ask this, “How many you got in this school?” Talking about numbers. Now folks it’s bad, it’s bad. The 10th Chapter of Romans, I’m not gonna ask you to read it, I’m just gonna cite it. You’ve heard me call out chapters and verses enough to have that much confidence in them. Paul said, “They are not all of Israel that are of Israel.” David said, “Many were in the congregation that are not sanctified.” And then Paul said, “In a great house there are many vessels,” and all those type of things. Now when you commence to counting heads “1, 2, 3, and this is how many we got,” now we don’t do that, we don’t do it that way; that is, we don’t consider that they are all of Israel. Cause now here’s what you might do, this is where you’ll make a mistake: Somebody that was sitting back there that you thought wasn’t in the thing is in it, and you counted somebody out that oughta be in. But now for the record, and since the government does ask something about it – and their idea for asking, that if you have a whole lot of folks then they calculate something like this: “Well if it’s a dollar a head, or 50 cents a head,” see they’re trying to trap you. That’s the reason why they won’t you to tell them about how many you got in your school, how many you got matriculated or enrolled in your school or in your church. Now why they do that, they’re trying to check up on you about this money business. Well now since they require something like that, we have somebody on the door, you know, to just kinda count heads, so far as counting heads is concerned. And now this room in here is a class, and this is a school. Now they’re job in here that have set it up


[About 30 second corruption on Tape]


… the thing or the hypothesis here on the Virgin Birth Myth where they say that Joseph, as they supposed that He was the son of Joseph, Luke said that in the 3rd Chapter. And the Jews way back there, they thought that he was His father. And that when He said that Yahweh Elohim was His father… Now remember I was talking about that man that was at my house today trying to play stupid and he run his own self right in a crack and fixed his own self. Well now he had said the same thing that I told you. Now listen, let me give it to you so you can understand. Now you see the best way to point it out is on this chart, that’s why I drew that. Now you see where it is on this chart, see they don’t understand emersion, you got to put ‘em water or something, something he can see. But now this man, Adam, Yahweh breathed into his nostrils, (see the breadth of life here), and he became an animated or a living soul. Now if you keep your eyes right on that pattern, see now you got one thing here, and the breadth of life here, and then here, and then here, and it goes right down by the vessels in that tabernacle. Now here’s what I’m saying: Now Yahweh immersed him. Now that’s often been ----, immersion, or caused a deep sleep to fall upon him. Now this is your first anesthetic. And He took out of this man (now you get this straight) He took out of this man the woman. You got a rib in one book, and in another book you got a womb. Now this is a man, and the womb-man. Now here you are arguing around and raise all this sand about the woman, about the woman giving birth to a child. And you just got to have some man to impregnate a woman (get it now) and you just claim by all that’s holy that Joseph or somebody has to be His father. They didn’t believe Him when He said Yahweh was His Father. Well now, you didn’t wanna believe that, well now look, how could you believe… If you can’t believe that a woman can be impregnated by a man or without a man, how are you gonna believe that a man can be impregnated with a woman? Do you see what I mean? Now what you do you trap your own self. And that’s what you do when you try to take your little old carnal mind and your head and figure out something.


Now I thought like this: I always like to give people an opportunity to have something to say. And the reason why we put those ministers up here is because they are going to be ministers within our group. Now Dr. Freddy Allen, and Dr. Clive Woodland, and Dr. Luther Daniels, and Alfreda, now they left this morning to make the rounds and go around to the schools that we have established to date. And Jeff Fullen left Thursday, and he is come, he land in Ohio – and they always call me when they land. Now I told you that there would be some going, and making these rounds from one time to the other. But now I’ll tell you this, there is nobody out there on this earth that’s able to stop one of ‘em; you can’t do that.


Now when I get up and say that Yahweh sent me to preach, and that I was caught up into heaven and things were revealed to me, people say “No, I don’t believe that; I don’t think you’re telling it right. You oughta hear our preacher.” Well say, where do you belong to? Said “I belong to the Church of God.” Then another one say, “Naw, I belong to the Church of Christ.” And another one say, “I don’t belong to that I’m a Roman Catholic, or I’m a… whatever you are, a Jehovah’s Witness.” Now recently Brother Hodoh and I was down to some Jehovah’s Witnesses house, and I told them that we had in this school people that come from Jehovah’s Witnesses. You know what they told me? Tell ‘em what they told me Babe.


Babe Hodoh: Nope, you don’t have no Jehovah’s Witnesses.


Dr. Kinley: Would you mind Dr. Dennis? Were you with Jehovah’s Witnesses?


Dennis Droulard: 6 years


Dr. Kinley: Six years. And you got all the books that they have, is that right?


Dennis: Everything that I could find.


Dr. Kinley: Now he’s a licensed minister here. Thank you doc. We’ve got Kim Clark; [Roman Catholic Nun] we’ve got people out of everything you can think of in this school. And let me tell you this, if this is your first time here, if you hang around then we’ll have you, cause you’re confronted with the reality of everything down here. There is no big “I’s” and little “You’s” and important folk; there is no smart alecks down here. Now I’m called, for the record, I am call the Founder and the Dean of this school. And people would say, “Who is your teacher?” Well you’d answer, and you would say, “Dr. Henry C. Kinley.” But now that’s not the teacher, the Holy Spirit is the teacher. Now that’s who the teacher is. Now somebody said, as the Catholics often say, “The Catholic Church teaches this, and the Catholic Church teaches that.” The church does not teach! Now that’s all that you have been confronted with in your life is nothing else but a bunch of stupidity and colossal ignorance. That’s all you have had.


Now let me tell you this: Noah, when it come time for Yahweh in carrying out His purpose in the end of that age, Noah found favor, or in other words Yahweh picked that man up. It wasn’t because he was such a good man or anything at all. Now what happens is this, see from the realm of eternity He knew all about what was gonna happen, and He declared the end from the beginning. Now we got a little old drawed up idea and concept of God like this: When something happens then we got to rush out and tell Him about what’s happening, like the war in Viet Nam as though He don’t know nothing about it. And we’re going to tell Him all about it, and we’re gonna get it stopped. Now remember when Franklin Delanor Roosevelt was in, at 12 O’clock he ask people to crawl and pray that same night for just as long as the children, you see, and pray that God would let us win the war. Now look, let’s put it down like it is. Don’t you know that them folks over there on the other side was hoping as much as you was to win the war. Now both of you can’t win! We just have got a carnal idea, a carnal mind, we don’t understand that Yahweh has declared the end right from the beginning. And there is not a thing happening, there is nothing happening… Now Jehovah Witnesses said that (is that right Dennis?) they said, ”That God didn’t know that Adam and Eve was gonna sin back there in the garden.” I wouldn’t trust a God like that to… [Student Body Laughs] Then if He didn’t know that they were gonna sin back there, then why did He prepare a sacrifice before the foundation of the world? Now look, if He hadn’t been so stupid (I’m talking about Yahweh) if He hadn’t been so stupid He could have prevented it. See He just didn’t have to put a tree down there in order to touch it, evidently He must have wanted them to touch it. Do you see what I mean? But now here’s the other thing we don’t see, now here’s the bad part of it. Now for you to be just a little stupid, and me to be just a little stupid, now that’s not the bad part. The bad part of it is to be…not know, and then Bishop don’t know that you don’t know that you don’t know. Now that’s the bad part. Now everybody that comes along that Yahweh or God has really sent, you know what he’s gonna do, he’s gonna tell you things that you couldn’t believe to save your soul. You can’t believe it. You know why? Now here’s why, because you’re carnal, and you been out there in the Baptist Church all your life. And some devil, that’s all it is, and dib-dabbling around in carnal ordinances, and you can’t understand spiritual things, and you are standing up there as Dr. Austin just said, “Saying Jesus said.” He didn’t say half of what you said He said. In fact the matter He didn’t say nothing you say He said for most of these things. He’s been blamed for so much, and I never got so tired of hearing people say, “Jesus said.” Now I’ll demonstrate it to you. Now here I am, I’m the pastor. Don’t make no difference what church it is, just makes this the Methodist Church or the Baptist Church or the Roman Catholic Church, just make it any of ‘em you want to. You know how they get up there and read the passage, call themselves reading out of the New Testament – now that’s a myth. And they say, “Jesus said, (listen at me now) Jesus said ye are the lights of the world,” and He did not say that. “Jesus said YOU are the salt of the earth;” now that’s, that’s them Baptist. Now the Methodist man over there he says the same thing to his audience, Jesus said ye are the lights of the world, ye are.” And you say, “Yes that’s right.” And you got your finger on it right in the Bible here. “Don’t tell me Jesus didn’t say it; it’s right here in the New Testament.” And he never paid no attention to who He was talking to, what dispensation and what age it was in. Now as both of ‘em have told you, now listen close so ---- ----. Now you take the days in which He was walking around, and people would say, “Look, by what authority do you do the things that you’re doing? Why are you doing what you’re doing?” And here’s another thing I’d like you to see, I brought it up but maybe this went over your head. Now when He come along and chose the 70, and His 12 disciples, He never got one out of the Sanhedrin Council; He never chose a one. Now do you know who the Sanhedrin Counsel was? That’s these 70 elders that come all the way down. Now in order to fulfill that, He didn’t take that Sanhedrin Council, or those 70 that were there that taught up there in the temple and in the court; He didn’t take them, they’re to smart. He went out there and got an old fisherman, and fellows like that. See when you get a whole lot of stuff stuffed up in your head… Let me put it like this: People like to boast about how much education they’ve got, and about their diplomas, and about their university education, and about their credentials. NOW THIS IS WHAT THEY DON’T KNOW WHEN THEY’RE DOING THAT. Now I endorse an education, I think you should get all that you can get, but don’t fool yourself. Now what you’re really doing, and what you’re really saying, and Yahweh said it about you and your credentials, see and if you know that, “That I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and bring to nought the understanding of the prudent.” Listen, Paul said, “Not many wise men, not many noble (of the nobility) are called (why) because Yahweh has chosen the weak things of this world to confound the mighty.” But if ever He shows you anything for sure, and for real, now you really know something.


Now watch it again. The Jews walking around, He didn’t appeal to the Sanhedrin Council, He didn’t ask them for any credentials like the Apostle Paul had when he went out. He didn’t ask them for nothing. Then they sent a delegation out there to inquire of Him, said “What you doing out here; who’s authority did you get, we ain’t told you to go out there and do nothing?” He’s healing the folks and raising the dead and all them kind of things. And here you see they were trying to figure some way to corner Him, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Scribes, the smart boys. Said “He ain’t doing nothing but, just let Him alone, He’s healing the sick and raising the dead, and He’s doing all this.” He got ‘em on the carpet now and said, “Look boys, I didn’t come to call the righteous; now that’s why I didn’t choose nobody from the Sanhedrin Council, I’d have to confess!” [Doc Laughs] Now that’s what they thought. “I DID NOT COME TO CALL THE RIGHTEOUS BUT SINNERS UNTO REPENTANCE.” But now here’s where they failed at, they failed to look back and see THAT THERE’S NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT A ONE. Now they failed to see that. I tell you it’s terrible.


Now listen folks, to wind this thing up and to make the rest of the story real short. Now there isn’t anybody on this earth, there is nobody walking around in no body that knows the purpose and how it’s carried out except Yahweh Himself. Yahweh works through you, He works through me. He works… Now that’s the only one way you can find out. Now listen here, EVERY LAST ONE OF ‘EM NEVER DIGRESSES AND DEVIATES FROM THIS: He comes on back here, as Dr. Austin has said, TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY. Now here’s why you got to do that. And he went on down there in the 5th Chapter of John, and he read “And that Jesus said, Moses wrote of me; and if you had believed Moses you would have believed me, for Moses wrote of me.” He was back there with Moses. And now this is what the people think: they think that Joshua that was back there with Moses was a type of Jesus. No, that was Jesus Himself or that was Yahshua Himself. Then it might jump up in your mind, “Well if that’s true, how in the world could He disintegrate and get into genes and chromosomes and be conceived and formed in the womb of that Virgin Mary and be born of her? How can these things be?” Then you take the Bible and you read, finger right on it, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Look down at the 14th verse and it says “And the Word was made flesh and dwelled among us, and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth.” And we go right on just the same and didn’t see that He was back there, and even the Book said so. John said it, said, “Our hands have handled Him…” And now don’t believe a thing of it.


And here’s another thing that I thought about when you fellers were up here preaching. Now so many of ‘em are guilty of this, the people out in the world that call themselves Christians, and I have to say this most particular about Jehovah’s Witness. They don’t wanna hear nothing you got to say; they say “I didn’t come to be ministered unto,” quoting what Jesus said. Now you look over there in Hebrews it says this: “Be not forgetful to entertain angels whereby some have entertained some unaware.” Just like Abraham, and Lot, and Isaac, Yahweh said, “I appeared unto them.” You be very careful about that. How could you, how could you help somebody when you, just say, uh let me make a parable out of it. Now here’s a meat bone, and your dog’s out there, your dog is hungry and he wants something to eat just like you. But if you take that bone, which that dog would like to have, and you go out there and start to beating him all around all over the head, and say “Now wait till I get this bone laid down and you crawl back in there,” and you start beating him all over the head… You see what I’m talking about? Don’t make no difference how hungry he is, and even though he be your dog, and you got him chained up there, he’s liable to bite you; he’s liable to turn on you. So now the thing what we want to do here in this school, we’d like to hear everybody’s voice, we like to give everybody a chance. Now there isn’t anybody in this school, and there have never been, and the school is 38 years old, and we have never had nobody at no time to come and sit down in this school… Now we never told nobody to leave their church. What we’ve done, we’ve sent ‘em out of here and tried to force ‘em to out yonder into Babylon. I tried to talk to Jehovah’s Witnesses down there the other night, head strong; they say, “I don’t believe what you say.” Then they say, “Do you think that you are one of the hundred and forty-four thousand of the earth class that’s gonna be caught up into heaven, that’s gonna go to heaven?” Now that was just, now that floored me. Now that was just to stupid. Then as I told you that 19, well, I’ll put this up here first, 1844. Seventh Day Adventists, now they said Jesus would come in 1844. He failed… [Glitch in the Tape] Then here comes along Jehovah Witnesses, 1914; He didn’t show up. Now here’s what I wanna tell you: Dr. Gross you been around with me 38 years, soon will be 38 years.


Dr. Gross: That’s right


Dr. Kinley: Get up from there! Turn around there and look these people in the face. See I have been telling you folks what’s gonna happen all over the world for many many years. Now, nothing I ever told you about no prediction has ever failed, has it Dr. Gross?


Dr. Gross: [Couldn’t hear Dr. Gross’ response because of others talking]


Dr. Kinley: It has never failed. Thank you doctor. Now look, if I had claimed to be right and always right, and I had failed in a prediction I would at least go and sit down and let somebody tell it; I would at least do that much, and I would admit that I was wrong. Just like Jehovah’s Witnesses prophesied in that Jesus was coming in 1914, and He didn’t show up, now I think they oughta go somewhere and sit down, and shut up! Instead of walking around in your face and telling you, “You shut up you don’t know what you’re talking about.” Well evidently they didn’t know what they were talking about. Now then these people here, Seventh Day Adventist, now this is what they say: They say the reason why they say it, they say “That Jesus was just in the Holy Place in 1844, and instead of Him coming back to earth He was just entering into the Holy Place in 1844.” Now that’s what they’re teaching now. Now the last error is worse than the first. Your Bible teaches you in Hebrews that He entered on through the veil, and now He appears in the presence of Yahweh making intercession for us after He shed His blood. And that Most Holy Place Yahweh said, or Elohim said He would dwell between, Leviticus 16:2, said He would dwell between the wings of the Cherubims. Now if He was just out here in this sanctuary until1844 and He hasn’t went in to the Most Holy Place, then your faith is in vain and you’re still yet in your sins, cause here He is in the Holy Place back here. Oh I tell you folks, see you don’t have much time.


Now last night, and last week you heard Nixon talking about the troops going into Cambodia. Now haven’t I stood up here and told you for quite a few years, I’ve told you for years that they would. Not only Cambodia, Laos and ------. Now let me tell you this, and then we’ll go. Now a President is not, or rather was not suppose to have that much power without consulting and endorsing, Congressional endorsement of it, to move them troops and things about on the, uh, you see, without Congressional approval and consultation. Now since John F. Kennedy has been in there, you go back and look at the law! And I’m just amazed and stunned at them Congressmen up there – it’s about 11 laws where Nixon can send them troops anywhere he wants to, and nobody up there in Congress can say anything about it. He can shut your airplane plants down, do anything he wants to up there in the Congress, and you got it wrote up in your Constitutional Law. Now here’s how it happened, here’s how it happened. You see when John F. Kennedy, he lost the election he didn’t win it. Nixon won it, but Nixon was afraid to contest it. Then I told you that John F. Kennedy would be nominated, elected and assassinated, didn’t I tell you, didn’t I tell you that’s what was gonna happen?


Students: Yes sir


Dr. Kinley: All right now look, as soon as they put John F. Kennedy in there everything was closed out, and every last one of ‘em up there in Congress except Pierre Salinger was a Roman Catholic. And they tried to tie up your Governor to the Pope of Rome that ruleth and they put all that power in John F. Kennedy’s hand. And John F. Kennedy was just about as much Roman Catholic as I am. And when he didn’t do what they wanted him to do, they bumped him off! Now here they are up there talking about what they’re going to do, and they’re going to present a bill to Congress to keep the President from doing this that and the other, as though they don’t know that those laws had been… And I brought ‘em to school and read ‘em to you. No he had nothing to do about it, and that’s how it was done. See Cardinal Spellman and John F. Kennedy’s father got you into this thing over there in Geneva Switzerland at the Geneva Conference. Somebody wants to know so that they can write it up in American History how we got into the war, how did we get involved? You know that Diem and South Korea was a Roman Catholic, and they killed him. And then they went on and had a fake election under Lyndon B. Johnson and put Tsu in there, and he’s a Roman Catholic. And 20% of the people in South Vietnam is Roman Catholic, the rest of ‘em are Buddhist and Communists. Now what they wanna do, they want…The Papacy has lost Russia, they’ve lost China, they’ve lost Czechoslovakia, they’ve lost Poland, and they’re trying to stop the tide. And they got you over there through these channels that you don’t know how in the hell you got there, over there shedding blood. Got problems all over America, and the young people over there shedding their blood. What for? Congress and all they don’t even know how they got in there, how they got involved in it, and they want to know so they can put it in the records of the annals of the history of this country. Now don’t you start no stuff with me. Cause every time anybody’s ever come up here and started any stuff with me I drew the gun on ‘em; I let them read it right down. Haven’t I done that Dr. Gross?


Dr. Gross: That’s right


Dr. Kinley: Carried these books all around with me. You don’t argue with me. And any time I tell you something you can just ---- ----, I don’t expect you to believe me, because never a man in your lifetime has come along and talk to you like I have. I pulled my sleeve up and tell you by my watch on my arm what day an earthquake is gonna be, when Pope John the 23rd would move off of there. And they talked to me about the capitulation of Kings, Queens, and everything else, and I told ‘em, have I Dr. Gross?


Dr. Gross: That’s right


Dr. Kinley: He’s been right along with me. Many people have been around here along time. Now there’s some of ‘em that’s just so smart, “Why you didn’t say something about…we don’t know what you talking about?” They don’t know who they talking to. They think they’re talking to me. They think they talking to O Henry C, and Henry C is the champ of the idiots. Now you can’t get no dumber than me, and you can’t get no more intelligent than me, there is no big I’s, but you see if you’ll just sit back and let Yahweh show you, let Him make you understand what His purpose is, you see then everything will clear up, and I mean there will be no more changes; there will be no more strife.


Now this earth plane, them satanic spirits were cast out in it, and they’re incarnated in physical bodies. Peter and Jude said, “They were cast down to hell.” Right there, right in there, yes that’s where they were, and I know the grave is translated hell. And you don’t know what it is that’s got you sitting up here reviling against God, you don’t know what that is. You call yourself standing up for the faith which was once delivered unto the sons… That’s right.

[Doc walks off floor]


Audience: Applause